Opinions on aftermarket 110 triggers

[letrbuck]

I’m glad You found a solution with the Elftmann Trigger. I think it will serve You well. I’m going to assume that what was hitting in Your installation was the Shoe that is added after the barreled action is installed in the stock ?? But it could have been something else. Glad You got it figured out. I prefer the straight trigger, without the Shoe, so I don’t use it.

I am currently using an Elftmann, that I modified to break at 8 ounces, in a bench rest rifle. I did a write up a year or so ago on here, but it didn’t generate much interest. I have that trigger in a 6mmBRA that is mounted in a Boyd’s Laminate Stock, that I heavily modified. Last month I was doing load and seating depth work up on it. I ended up putting 5 shots into a 3” Orange Stick On at 600 yards. So, I would say the Elftmann Trigger did its part. But I digress. Whatever that means??

Congrats and Good Luck with Your Trigger

It wasn't the shoe, but the top of the trigger guard that goes into the stock was touching trigger just enough to disengage the sear and not leave the bolt cocked, if that made sense. Might be time to get a new stock I guess...

[GrenGuy]

It wasn't the shoe, but the top of the trigger guard that goes into the stock was touching trigger just enough to disengage the sear and not leave the bolt cocked, if that made sense. Might be time to get a new stock I guess...

OK, now I see. I have had to modify Trigger Guards in the past to provide clearance for triggers. It can also happen with the Stock. Especially with aftermarket triggers combined with aftermarket stocks. I had a trigger that I could get to work perfectly with the barreled action outside the stock, but when installed in the stock, it would trip immediately upon cocking. It took Me a long time to realize the trigger housing was ridding against the trigger guard. Since then all trigger guards are OPENED UP.

[letrbuck]

OK, now I see. I have had to modify Trigger Guards in the past to provide clearance for triggers. It can also happen with the Stock. Especially with aftermarket triggers combined with aftermarket stocks. I had a trigger that I could get to work perfectly with the barreled action outside the stock, but when installed in the stock, it would trip immediately upon cocking. It took Me a long time to realize the trigger housing was ridding against the trigger guard. Since then all trigger guards are OPENED UP.

Exactly what I experienced. Perplexed me at first but was an easy fix

[Cornbread]

Just bought a Timney. Easy install works fine.

[Robinhood]

For the most part, all the aftermarket triggers are about the same. Regardless of peoples favorites, or the thinking that such & such works better than who’s it jammer…, they are about equal as the all use the factory Sear. You will have better results with any one of them if you dress the Sear prior to install.

Now Jard did it right. They included a Billet steel, machined Sear. I was very optimistic when it was released. However, the Jard came with its own intrinsic set of problems. I believe they can be modified to perform much better, but who wants to spend $200+ to then have to go and work on it some more to function best?

I’d a fan of Safe-Action triggers, hence I like the Accutrigger. But it was always missing the Sear & overtravel adjustments. However, a company has released a n Accutrigger-style replacement, with aforementioned features & a straight trigger. I’ll likely grab one of these in light of TriggerTech not planning anything at least until the end of 2024. But I still haven’t jumped. Here’s my issue: is it worth spending $150-$200 for an aftermarket trigger when I can work a factory trigger to witching 90% of the performance? So far, the answer for me is no. So we’ll see.


SSS triggers used the factory sear but in a completely different way. Im not sure if this is the right wording but the factory sear was passive with regards to the release. It was still part of the function but an additional piece was involved. I wish someone would buy up the design and any patents so it would be produced again. You will never rid a Savage of all its issues but the SSS trigger and a SSS bolt lift fix really moves a savage into a player. The new style bolts to me are a great improvement in lift but leave something on the table with the spring. Had to ramble since the topic was improvement.

Maybe soon I will let you all in on what your bolt lift is missing.

[Dave Hoback]

Not speaking of a T&T, hmm?:p

[Robinhood]

I will say that Fred has taught many of us, by explanation or suggestion, fixes for all of our issues. Most if not all of the things we try to educate NooB's on, were originally found in the discussions on this forum often at the expense of Fred sharing his trade knowledge with us. Everything I know about Savages came from either doing things that I thought would help only to find Fred had done it or something better first or Fred showing the way from the get go. Jim also chimed in with things he had learned on his journey. Very few can claim to be the father of any real meaningful fix or improvement without giving credit to one of those two guys.


A T&T job is something I would recomend, however if you are a DIY kind of guy but have limited tooling or don't have any tooling there are things that help. Some improvement is better than none. You can only make these improvements to the old style firing pin setup. I don't have any suggestions on the newer FP design.

[Dave Hoback]

Well yes, very few individuals have come up with anything on their own. (Hardly anyone!) Fewer still are the people who will admit they had help… Every Forum it seems, has a board “Guru” who is attributed with having all knowledge on a specific brand and inventing all the aftermarket parts for it. I started on firearms Forms about from the inception.. late 90’s.- early 00’s. And when a person has read & researched that long, certain names are familiar. Also certain events… partnerships, old rivalries & fall outs.

I agree with you Robin, the amount of information Jim & Fred (& a few others) brought here is pretty incredible. However, there are brand new shooter & Savage owners every day. Many get board with answering the same questions, recommending the same things, month after month, year after year. They often stop answering or answer with snide inflection of how bothersome it is to answer over & over.

Also, there some things that can’t really be traced to origin. I found different takes on who “invented” the Lift Kit. I mean, we don’t go around offering praise to the guy who made the first chair after all! :biggrin-new: And when it comes to sharing knowledge, my opinion is one simply should. I’ve figured several things & made my own over the years, concerning certain products. (Not necessarily with firearms). But then I turned around and blogged about how to do or make said product. And never charged a dime for any of it! Just not what do. It’s more gratifying to share what you know… not sell it. Eventually someone figures out what a person thinks they invented anyway.

[Robinhood]

I need a lawyer. I don't want to pay him so I am hoping he will walk me through the legal processes, show me all of forms ,motions and filings without charging me anything.

Fred may not have come up with the lift kit, But he was the developer of the T&T (Timing and Truing with lift improvement). No other lift improvement entails the amout of purposeful work Fred has done. Timing is something only knowledgable smiths work on. I am betting the percentage of the guys on this forum is very low. Not hard to read five articles on the internet and be a pro at talking about it, but it is not in everyones kit. As little as five years ago most internet gurus could begin to tell you about timing. The hand off between the trigger and the sear on bolt close is essential for smooth bolt operation. If you ever get one that is out of time you will feel it. But you wont know how to fix it.

Having the knowledge of improving the bolt lift and fix timing issues on a Savage was the undertaking of an experienced shooter with a great understanding of the savage issues and the mechanical knowledge to fix them in mass. There was no internet then. Sure others did this or that but the extent of the T&T took the Savage 110 rifles out of toy box. His triggers are still consideed the best by many. I hate to be a fan boy of SSS but I have searched far and wide and few products compete.

Being gainfully employed is much different than having time on your hands to research stuff and post about it. A valuable service indeed but making a living and giving your trade secrets away is something different. If you make your living doing something where you spent lots of time going to school, investing in learning, inovating etc..., giving it away does not make sense. If it is a hobby, then that model looks different.

There are many that have contributed to this forum, you are the latest go getter in a long line. Your research into new barrel nuts or stocks has a great value for people newer to the sport. You too might tire of this and someone else will need to come along. This forum is fed by new people coming to brotherhood. I see all the old Super posters of Savage Shooters days gone by on other forums. They have mostly have outgrown Savage's for something that performs better without the amount of work.

Thank you for picking up the baton David. Try not to stiflle dialog with arrogance and hard nosed opinions.

[Dave Hoback]

You had me until that last comment. Pretty off putting. I can explain exactly what the Timing is. And with the right tooling I could perform the task. It’s not difficult to understand. I’ve read through the years of many people who had it done, but would never do it again. Including several here that have been around even long before me.. and voices I trust as truthful. Besides that, anyone who knows, knows it does nothing for accuracy. Unless there is a problem already.

I’m sure it’s worthwhile for a small number of Actions. We’ve seen several who’s 110’s were all but unusable from the sticky action. As if they had overpressure, STUCK cases in the chamber. So yes, I would say those would certainly benefit. But will mine? Mmmm, no. I’ve already shown video proof of the action on mine. Many others have the same. So I would leave it at that. There are Savages out there that will benefit from it. Unfortunately, it’s touted as a blanket fix for all Savage Actions. Which has led to a number of disappointments by many who expected more. (As their Actions were already pretty good.)

Thank you for a good conversation… save for that last comment.

[Robinhood]

The last comment was the most important thing I typed. It wasn't for my glory. It was a gift to you.

As for Action timing I am still fairly sure you don't understand it. I do know by tonight you will be well informed:adoration: though. I can't swear by the execution of SSS, but he knows what it is. As do most top Gunsmiths that build target rifles. Timing is imperical to keep from upsetting a rifle when trying to shoot small groups. Therefore it is accuracyand precision related. Not sure where sticky action came into play or stuck cases and primary extraction. I am guessing you are throwing something and hoping it sticks. Alas, I have said it before and the moniker still applies. Thanks back at you.

[Dave Hoback]

I never include the SSS trigger in conversation. I believe it’s pointless to recommend…being it ain’t available! Sure it’s the best performing… the Evolution actually, but what good is that to someone looking for a trigger? Best one can hope for is to stumble across a used one. Right now there are exactly ZERO for sale on line. I’ve thought about reproducing it, but I prefer Safe-Action design of the Accutrigger. And now someone is making a straight design of the Accutrigger with the Sear adjustment, & from through hardened 4140. If I can copy a Sear likewise, that will be all the trigger I’ll ever need. Again guys, 90%+ of the performance of say the SSS, but with no possibility of accidental discharge from the trigger being too light.

[Robinhood]

The design of the SSS trigger made accidental firing very difficult. Alas, you are correct. They are not made anymore.

It would be nice if someone would find out if Fred or the Trigger manufacturer have the rights, maake a deal and start making them again. Maybe even provide the modified hanger. With triggers selling for over 200 bucks I think there is room for a small profit.

[Dave Hoback]

Ok:rolleyes:

[prdatr]

I need a lawyer. I don't want to pay him so I am hoping he will walk me through the legal processes, show me all of forms ,motions and filings without charging me anything.

Fred may not have come up with the lift kit, But he was the developer of the T&T (Timing and Truing with lift improvement). No other lift improvement entails the amout of purposeful work Fred has done. Timing is something only knowledgable smiths work on. I am betting the percentage of the guys on this forum is very low. Not hard to read five articles on the internet and be a pro at talking about it, but it is not in everyones kit. As little as five years ago most internet gurus could begin to tell you about timing. The hand off between the trigger and the sear on bolt close is essential for smooth bolt operation. If you ever get one that is out of time you will feel it. But you wont know how to fix it.

Having the knowledge of improving the bolt lift and fix timing issues on a Savage was the undertaking of an experienced shooter with a great understanding of the savage issues and the mechanical knowledge to fix them in mass. There was no internet then. Sure others did this or that but the extent of the T&T took the Savage 110 rifles out of toy box. His triggers are still consideed the best by many. I hate to be a fan boy of SSS but I have searched far and wide and few products compete.

Being gainfully employed is much different than having time on your hands to research stuff and post about it. A valuable service indeed but making a living and giving your trade secrets away is something different. If you make your living doing something where you spent lots of time going to school, investing in learning, inovating etc..., giving it away does not make sense. If it is a hobby, then that model looks different.

There are many that have contributed to this forum, you are the latest go getter in a long line. Your research into new barrel nuts or stocks has a great value for people newer to the sport. You too might tire of this and someone else will need to come along. This forum is fed by new people coming to brotherhood. I see all the old Super posters of Savage Shooters days gone by on other forums. They have mostly have outgrown Savage's for something that performs better without the amount of work.

Thank you for picking up the baton David. Try not to stiflle dialog with arrogance and hard nosed opinions.

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