Well I bought another rifle

[CRJR]

A Savage Ultra Light in 28 Nosler with a proof carbon barrel . Just got it yesterday . I put together some fed 215 , ELDX 175 and N570 rounds in ADG brass . Now to find a scope for it .

Thinking maybe a Leopold .

[Dave Hoback]

Nice! I could see a Leupy VX-5 or VX-6 on top of that rig. Or are you a Mark5 kinda man?

[CRJR]

Nice! I could see a Leupy VX-5 or VX-6 on top of that rig. Or are you a Mark5 kinda man?

I have no idea , thinking the VX5 2x15 44 , it's only 19 oz's . I have a Nikon FX1000 6x24 and a Nikon FX1000 4x16 I could use , but they're 25 oz's .
I have not looked at the Mark 5 . Should I?

[Dave Hoback]

The Mark line are heavier. Seems you are going as light as possible, right? And I’m guessing this is specifically a hunting rifle? Stick with the VX line. If the 3-15 suits your magnification needs, go for it. They are great hunting scopes. Very nice glass.

[Robinhood]

I have no idea , thinking the VX5 2x15 44 , it's only 19 oz's . I have a Nikon FX1000 6x24 and a Nikon FX1000 4x16 I could use , but they're 25 oz's . I have not looked at the Mark 5 . Should I? If you needed that you would know it. But then if you have 2000+/- for a scope That is an excellent choice. Then there is an optic that is impressing a lot of people ....Tract optics.

[CRJR]

The Mark line are heavier. Seems you are going as light as possible, right? And I’m guessing this is specifically a hunting rifle? Stick with the VX line. If the 3-15 suits your magnification needs, go for it. They are great hunting scopes. Very nice glass.

I'm thinking 3x18 would work better ? But yes , lightweight is my focus . I bought that Kimber , but it just feels "OFF" , if you know what I mean ?

[CRJR]

If you needed that you would know it. But then if you have 2000+/- for a scope That is an excellent choice. Then there is an optic that is impressing a lot of people ....Tract optics.
Wow , it does look nice , the Tract that is , but at 28oz's it's really too heavy for me . And no , I really don't have $2000 for a scope right now, LOL

[Dave Hoback]

I‘s say this scope has everything you’re looking for(except for lower price)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MU3BVNB/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?pd_rd_i=B01MU3BVNB&pd_rd_w=pE5cP&content-id=amzn1.sym.98eae024-ddf8-4aae-a3d1-746298cd5013&pf_rd_p=98eae024-ddf8-4aae-a3d1-746298cd5013&pf_rd_r=RF83FKWD2TPRW1P9EZE1&pd_rd_wg=StLq9&pd_rd_r=4987b453-ca91-4b92-866e-908b8f6d75b1&s=sporting-goods&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWjNPNDdPRFMwRlhaJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzE2ODAzMkg0WDlQU1dUMk1VMSZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTA4ODUzM09YRk05Nk41NzlGOCZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2t SZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

[Palmafiddleman]

The suggestion for optics all seem very good. I have a question though about the barrel. I have no experience with Proof Carbon barrels. You refer to a composite material wrapped around steel? This to obviously reduce weight. How is the accuracy? Good enough for competition? How would they stand up to shooting a string of 25 or so shots where the barrel typically gets hot.

[Dave Hoback]

The suggestion for optics all seem very good. I have a question though about the barrel. I have no experience with Proof Carbon barrels. You refer to a composite material wrapped around steel? This to obviously reduce weight. How is the accuracy? Good enough for competition? How would they stand up to shooting a string of 25 or so shots where the barrel typically gets hot.


It’s a very thin Stainless Steel Barrel wrapped in Carbon Fiber. They are not ideal for competition save for when weight is a big deal. Any kind of Bench or Prone shooting they offer no advantage.. and in some ways they have some disadvantages. They don’t handle heat or warping very well. Think of the Thinest, little pencil barrel you’ve ever seen. These are even thinner!

Here is a picture of of the steel underneath. These are great hunting barrels.. maybe for a Biathlon rifle…. But for competition…, not so much.
https://i.ibb.co/0rx9KMr/1-A21051-B-8706-4-A4-C-81-BB-9-FE8-B48-F2356.png (https://imgbb.com/)

[CRJR]

It’s a very thin Stainless Steel Barrel wrapped in Carbon Fiber. They are not ideal for competition save for when weight is a big deal. Any kind of Bench or Prone shooting they offer no advantage.. and in some ways they have some disadvantages. They don’t handle heat or warping very well. Think of the Thinest, little pencil barrel you’ve ever seen. These are even thinner!

Here is a picture of of the steel underneath. These are great hunting barrels.. maybe for a Biathlon rifle…. But for competition…, not so much.
https://i.ibb.co/0rx9KMr/1-A21051-B-8706-4-A4-C-81-BB-9-FE8-B48-F2356.png (https://imgbb.com/)
Dave , I think you missed the mark a little on this barrel . The carbon dissipates heat better than steel and I see a lot of them being used for competition . Also it's more rigid then steel so you get less deflection when hot .

[CRJR]

I‘s say this scope has everything you’re looking for(except for lower price)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MU3BVNB/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?pd_rd_i=B01MU3BVNB&pd_rd_w=pE5cP&content-id=amzn1.sym.98eae024-ddf8-4aae-a3d1-746298cd5013&pf_rd_p=98eae024-ddf8-4aae-a3d1-746298cd5013&pf_rd_r=RF83FKWD2TPRW1P9EZE1&pd_rd_wg=StLq9&pd_rd_r=4987b453-ca91-4b92-866e-908b8f6d75b1&s=sporting-goods&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWjNPNDdPRFMwRlhaJ mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzE2ODAzMkg0WDlQU1dUMk1VMSZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTA4ODUzM09YRk05Nk41NzlGOCZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2t SZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1
I love that scope , except for the price tag , LOL
What do you think about this one , and yes it is heavy .

https://www.eurooptic.com/Trijicon-Tenmile-HX-3-18x50-SFP-w-MRAD-Center-Dot-Red-Green-Illumination-30mm-Sa.aspx

[Palmafiddleman]

Thanks guys for the input on the carbon fiber wrapped barrels. Who knows. All it takes is for someone using one to have some success.

[charlie b]

I always wanted to try a CF wrapped barrel. Back in the 1970's the Army was working on CF wrap for cannon barrels. They were trying to find a way to increase firing rate, especially for artillery, as well as reducing weight. They found that the currently used barrel jackets did the same job and was less expensive. The automated boresight system was part of that fix. They also did some .50cal M2 barrels.

[Dave Hoback]

In light duty use. In heavy, continuous fire it’s not optimum. Trust me on this.. I’ve been working with Carbon Fiber for many years in projects I do. I even make my own Carbon Fiber plate laminating the CF fabric with 2-part epoxy resin. And there lies it’s weakness. While Carbon Fiber fabric is extremely good at dissipating heat, the epoxy resin needed to laminate CF to shape & provide structure, is not good with heat.. not at all. You have to understand, the Carbon Fiber is essentially “glued” to this incredibly thin barrel. It doesn’t become part of the barrel; & it doesn’t fill in the place of the machined material. Not to mention, the Stainless Steel & Carbon Fiber react to temp changes much differently. The barrel can still warp within the CF shell. Here’s a decent video explaining a good bit in detail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja6V-lI1fRw

CRJR, please understand, & don’t get me wrong… I’m not saying the Proof barrel is bad. I think it’s a great product for the intended purpose. Which is ultimate weight reduction. However, removing a bunch of material from the barrel, & gluing Carbon Fiber to it in place, does not discount the fact the barrel is now a more warp prone, strange harmonic inducing piece. Right from the start they are not achieving the accuracy of the big names. The accuracy is good. But, it’s still the Bartliens, Bruce, Shilens, Criterion’s, McGowan’s & such that are still producing the leading world class competition. Also, as Charlie pointed out the Military has looked to using it for decades. There is a reason they have not been successful, and it’s mainly the Epoxy which is the issue. The “Glue” as it were. If you search, you can find articles on the military trials, (and subsequent failures) with using it. Regardless, I absolutely love the stuff! It’s my favorite material to make handle scales for my custom knives. And even recently making a bench rest Bipod using CF plate & Tubing. (Pics below). But I am very familiar with its strength & weaknesses. I don’t just say things at random. I speak on things I know.

One of my customs with the CF I laminate myself.
https://i.ibb.co/xqPVDhX/6868-F7-F2-02-E8-476-D-BA96-77-D2831648-BE.jpg (https://ibb.co/tpky4BQ)

The Bipod I recently designed & built.
https://i.ibb.co/HLSXqMz/B7-F38966-5-CFC-4-F25-AFCF-AAE4-F2990868.jpg (https://ibb.co/1YgbTpq)

[charlie b]

Dave, just so you know there are some really good CF 'resins' out there that stand up to the heat. Few that I know of are available to the common user. One I know of used very high heat at very specific cure curves. They had stuff that was matched to the base material thermal characteristics.

The lack of use in barrels was not really cause it didn't work, just the benefits were not worth the difficulty in mfg.

[Dave Hoback]

Polyester or Epoxy? 1:1, 3:1, 5:1? I’ve spent quite some time both continuously using, & ongoing research of laminate components.

Here’s a good piece of information which really outlines my point. This is Dragon plate, which is about the most heat rate resilient laminate Carbon Fiber one can purchase. Even with the high heat rating, look how it very quickly bows. It’s still quite affected. Aside from that, Carbon Fiber is wonderful.. I love it! But Carbon Fiber has different properties from steel or Aluminum. It is stronger and than steel by weight. This does not mean given two dowels in exact dimensions, one being steel & one being Carbon Fiber, that the CF dowel will be stronger. It doesn’t work like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1Rt2dhlJB4

[charlie b]

None of those Dave. They were industrial proprietary products used in aerospace applications.

I've used most of the CF products commonly available, and even subjected them to destructive load testing. They aren't the same.

And, yes, the properties are much different than steel or aluminum.

[prdatr]

I have a question though about the barrel. I have no experience with Proof Carbon barrels. You refer to a composite material wrapped around steel? This to obviously reduce weight. How is the accuracy? Good enough for competition? How would they stand up to shooting a string of 25 or so shots where the barrel typically gets hot.

People I know use them for the weight savings on hunting rifles.

[GrenGuy]

People I know use them for the weight savings on hunting rifles.

As far as I am concerned, that is the ONLY reason for them.

Except for the cool factor and bragging rights, at a super premium price.

I wonder how many rounds they can handle before barrel heat starts throwing shots ?

A rifle Smith I know uses them on his 5 pound hunting rifle builds.