Savage 110 Precision Quality Issue

[Patoli]

https://ibb.co/FXm8BPFHello together, I am new here, from old Germany, and just introduced myself in another post. Beside to MSR's from Savage I recently received a Savage 110 Precision .300 Win Mag - new model with the MDT chassis. After 5 shots on the range to zero the scope, I did a default bore check with a camera and the result surprised me a lot. I cross checked some other rifles (also the MSR's) and the result was totally different than the 110. I have never seen such "cross grooves" in a barrel. Can you check the picture (https://ibb.co/FXm8BPF) and let me know if this is normal? I don't think so but maybe I am wrong. Thanks in advance and best regards, P.

[PhilC]

Welcome Patoli. What you are seeing are the grooves from the button rifling process and very typical in Savage production barrels. Think you'll find that barrel will shoot quite well, mine does.

[Patoli]

Ok, that surprises me. My MSR10 and MSR15 look smooth and shiny without any grooves at all. The importer here in Germany looked at the picture and they told my now to send the rifle to them. They want to look at it in detail. I will keep you updated

[Dave Hoback]

Indeed. Many of us who know this tell people to stay away from bore scopes! Because so many people take a look down the bore & convince themselves the barrel is trashed! Even before shooting it at times, or regardless of the barrel posting Sub 1MOA accuracy! As said, don’t pay it any mind. Concentrate on how it shoots. Do you reload? (I hope) If not, remember it won’t see true accuracy with factory ammunition.

[J.Baker]

Sadly that's fairly normal for a factory Savage barrel, though yours does seem to be a bit worse than most I've seen. As Dave said, how it shoots is what most important rather than how it looks. If it shoots good I wouldn't worry about it as those chatter marks will smooth out and disappear after a few hundred rounds. Only negative in the meantime as you may have to clean the copper out a little more frequently until that happens.

[deadduck357]

I wouldn't be happy with that.

[charlie b]

I would not either. A bit of chatter from the rifling is 'normal'. Yours goes way beyond that. I'd contact the importer and see about returning it.

[Dave Hoback]

This is Savage guys. It’s a reason some of us only use Savage for their Actions, and build the rest.

The fact remains, Savage factory rifles routinely shoot quite accurate, regardless of the how the the bore scope shows. Again this is why so many of us tell people to stay away from a bore scope unless you know how to diagnose inaccuracy due to bore issues, ie., worn throat or rifling, corrosion/pitting, etc.

[gbflyer]

This is Savage guys. It’s a reason some of us only use Savage for their Actions, and build the rest.

The fact remains, Savage factory rifles routinely shoot quite accurate, regardless of the how the the bore scope shows. Again this is why so many of us tell people to stay away from a bore scope unless you know how to diagnose inaccuracy due to bore issues, ie., worn throat or rifling, corrosion/pitting, etc.

This is gospel right here. The largest percentage of borescope owners have no idea what we are looking at. For me ignorance is bliss.

[Whynot]

I wouldn't be happy with that.

But why? Why does it matter what it looks like?

If it is causing a issue then I'm all for getting it warrantied- but he has said nothing about any issue (never said anything about how it shot) other than he was able to get a zero in 5 shots. After that he did a "default" check-- so it doesn't sound like he was having problems and went looking for the cause. If it had precision issues then he wouldn't have got a zero in 5 shots.... he would be shooting all over trying to decide where the center of the group was.

Bore scopes are great for some things (looking for a carbon ring- checking machining work etc) but they don't do anything for telling you how a barrel will shoot.

[deadduck357]

But why? Why does it matter what it looks like?

If it is causing a issue then I'm all for getting it warrantied- but he has said nothing about any issue (never said anything about how it shot) other than he was able to get a zero in 5 shots. After that he did a "default" check-- so it doesn't sound like he was having problems and went looking for the cause. If it had precision issues then he wouldn't have got a zero in 5 shots.... he would be shooting all over trying to decide where the center of the group was.

Bore scopes are great for some things (looking for a carbon ring- checking machining work etc) but they don't do anything for telling you how a barrel will shoot.

Out of four Savage rifles I have none look like yours. Yeah they have some minor chattering but that looks like you're borescoping a manual transmission.

Agree that I'd shoot it and see how it performs. But gotta imagine that rough bore has gotta harbor an increased amount of copper and fouling. Bet it will take an extra amount of cleaning effort as well.

Maybe someone here could answer but wouldn't that also effect velocity???

[Dave Hoback]

No, it has no bearing on velocity either way. Velocity is directly controlled by amount of powder burn & pressure.

[PhilC]

Another thing to keep in mind, borescopes greatly magnify what you're looking at.

FWIW, my 12FV in 6.5CM looked like that when new and it shot extremely well for a factory barrel.

[tomme boy]

That is from the drilling of the bore not from the button being pulled through. They don't hone or lap the bore before rifling. Each ridge is the feed rate of the drill rpm. It is a cost cutting feature that is used to maximize profits.

[Patoli]

.....But gotta imagine that rough bore has gotta harbor an increased amount of copper and fouling. Bet it will take an extra amount of cleaning effort as well.

Thanks for all of your reply's. Over here in Germany things are a litte different regarding "warranty" than they are over there in the US. We have only 1 importer. If there is an issue and you report that, maybe a year or two
after you purchased the rifle, for example because of what deadduck357 said "But gotta imagine that rough bore has gotta harbor an increased amount of copper and fouling" and you have issues with accuracy if you dont clean the rifle every 20-30 shots (that's what a gunsmith over here told me), they will tell you its not there fault and the rifle ist 6 months, 1 year ore 1.5 years -- so your fault.... Thats why I reported it towards the importer. After they watched the picture they now advised me to send the rifle to them. Their gunsmith wants to check it.

[Patoli]

That is from the drilling of the bore not from the button being pulled through. They don't hone or lap the bore before rifling. Each ridge is the feed rate of the drill rpm. It is a cost cutting feature that is used to maximize profits.
Exactly this is what it looks to me. They only thing that concerns me is that my two other (cheaper) Savage rifles dont look like that. This means that they can do it better...!?!

[Dave Hoback]

Thanks for all of your reply's. Over here in Germany things are a litte different regarding "warranty" than they are over there in the US. We have only 1 importer. If there is an issue and you report that, maybe a year or two
after you purchased the rifle, for example because of what deadduck357 said "But gotta imagine that rough bore has gotta harbor an increased amount of copper and fouling" and you have issues with accuracy if you dont clean the rifle every 20-30 shots (that's what a gunsmith over here told me), they will tell you its not there fault and the rifle ist 6 months, 1 year ore 1.5 years -- so your fault.... Thats why I reported it towards the importer. After they watched the picture they now advised me to send the rifle to them. Their gunsmith wants to check it.

Well, several of us who have been around, owned, been shooting, built & worked on Savages for years… some us a decade or more, told you it’s of no bearing. But I think you had already convinced yourself it’s a problem so… good luck to you my friend.

This again is Precisely why many of us discourage newer Savage owners, and newer shooters in general to NOT buy borescopes! It never fails they convince themselves that their barrel is trashed. Regardless of it shooting well. LOL! :deadhorse:

[tomme boy]

It is not only savage that this is done. They all have it to some degree. Only way around this is going to be a cut rifled barrel. Even hammer frged barrels have this as they don't hone or lap the bore before hammering them.

[Turkeytider]

Sooo......with all that going on in the barrel....how does the gun shoot?

[J.Baker]

Exactly this is what it looks to me. They only thing that concerns me is that my two other (cheaper) Savage rifles dont look like that. This means that they can do it better...!?!The extent of the chatter is dependent on tool wear to a great extent. Get a fresh, sharp drill and it's going to be a lot smoother than a drill that's well worn and on the verge of falling outside of acceptable tolerance.

It's been probably 6-8 years ago at least, but at the time Savage had a sizeable batch of .224 caliber barrels get out that looked like someone had run a tap down the muzzle end of the barrel. Fred actually got one on a gun he'd ordered in from Savage, and there were probably two dozen other guys here on the forum who had purchased new rifles with similarly rough barrels over a 5-6 month period. Fred sent his back to Savage after a few emails back and forth with the engineers he knows there as they were keen to "investigate" how that happened.

I think the more pressing question should have been how did they make it out of the factory looking like that. I mean, Fred's was so bad you didn't even need a bore scope to see it. Having toured the factory I know every barrel they make is handled by a guy who looks down through it at a shadow box to verify the straightness of the bore and bumps it as necessary where necessary to ensure it is straight. That being the case I can't imagine how that person could miss such a bad spot in a barrel like that. Then again it is a union shop and we know how that mentality usually is: "Not my responsibility - that's someone else's job."