375 H&H Opinions

[bootsmcguire]

So I have spent most of this last year acquiring parts to throw together a 110 setup for the 375 H&H. I managed to acquire a NOS Savage factory made barrel from Numerich as a 24" Magnum Taper Small shank. Mated it to a Small Shank Magnum length flat back action sitting a Duramaxx stock and topped it with a Sightron 3-9x40. With the recent changes in the regulations here in my home state of Iowa, it is currently legal for whitetail deer hunting. Now I realize that I may be trying to use a cannon to kill a fly here, but plugging in the numbers with my current load choice it seems to parallel the flight path of a 30-06 150gr load when sighted for 150yds and that will give me a great advantage in the open field type areas where my 444 Marlin (CVA Hunter and also use a Savage Striker both chambered in 444) tends to be limited in range.

My current load is the Hornady 250 CX over 75.0grs of CFE223 with a Rem 9-1/2 Mag Primer set about .040" off the lands (near as I can tell). It is currently giving me about a 2.25" group at 150yds.

Having not dealt with a magnum of this level much before, I guess my question for discussion here is what kind of grouping should I really be expecting from this thing? Normally with all my other endeavors if I can't get .750" at 100yds or less I am majorly disappointed and will continue to work with it until it does and in many cases will continue to work it until I can be 1/2MOA or better, but in this case (with no brake as of last range session) my poor old shoulder may not be up to that much range time. I did build a prototype brake today just as a starting place for designing one for this rifle, but even still with cost and scarcity of components these days should I continue to chase the one hole or am I asking too much of this cartridge? Also any tips or tricks for this cartridge are most appreciated. Far from a rookie in rifle building and reloading, but this is my 1st outing with the H&H. Thanks.

[charlie b]

Almost any cartridge can be made to perform well. Just depends on the barrel, components and how much time you want to spend with it. The recoil is an issue for many (me especially :) ). Once you try to get below MOA the 'little' things become more important, including your body during trigger pull and recoil. Heavy recoil makes it that much more difficult.

Basically it depends on what you want to do with the rifle. If hunting, then get it to an acceptable level for the ranges you are shooting at. MOA should be fairly 'easy' to reach.

[bootsmcguire]

Thanks for the reply Charlie. Yeah, MOA would be a decent goal here I feel at this time. Any round with a good barrel is capable of of better than I am getting currently, however for the upcoming season if I head out with this as it is I am confident that it will fulfill my needs atm. I guess my cheap side is showing at the moment since I spent most of this year scraping up supplies during this "shortage" we currently find ourselves in.

[charlie b]

I would think bullets will be the most difficult part. Many hunting bullets are just not that accurate. Your current group may be as good as you can do with those bullets. You probably already do this, but, barrel cooling will be an issue. Even with a magnum contour barrel, the large bore means there is less metal there and heating up will probably change the point of impact.

Way back when I hunted I would take several days to shoot groups. Get three targets. Fire one round at each. Go home and clean the gun. Next day same three targets, fired in same order. Repeat until I had 3 or 5 rounds per target. Note changes in point of impact from round 1 to 3. Adjust for zero and fire a confirmation shot. Then go hunting.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, the 375 (Hot&Heavy :smile-new:), was never designed to be a target cartridge. It was meant to lay out very large animals in Africa! However, with worked up loads, you should have no issues seeing SUB 1MOA. Here’s a video with a CZ 550 firing 375H&H doing back to back 1MOA groups with factory ammunition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZIs8l3T9-w

[bootsmcguire]

I would think bullets will be the most difficult part. Many hunting bullets are just not that accurate. Your current group may be as good as you can do with those bullets. You probably already do this, but, barrel cooling will be an issue. Even with a magnum contour barrel, the large bore means there is less metal there and heating up will probably change the point of impact.

Way back when I hunted I would take several days to shoot groups. Get three targets. Fire one round at each. Go home and clean the gun. Next day same three targets, fired in same order. Repeat until I had 3 or 5 rounds per target. Note changes in point of impact from round 1 to 3. Adjust for zero and fire a confirmation shot. Then go hunting.

That may be a better way to test for me also. Luckily my shooting range is about 40 yards out my back door and I have a little more than a week to deer season so I may just have to give that a whirl and try to remove more of my human error.


Well, the 375 (Hot&Heavy :smile-new:), was never designed to be a target cartridge. It was meant to lay out very large animals in Africa! However, with worked up loads, you should have no issues seeing SUB 1MOA. Here’s a video with a CZ 550 firing 375H&H doing back to back 1MOA groups with factory ammunition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZIs8l3T9-w

Thanks Dave. Good video. It obviously shows the round is capable and I am sure my rifle should be, being a Savage and all :cool:. I may just have to finally invest in a lead sled to remove me from the equation lol.

[charlie b]

Lead sleds are not near as consistent as some people believe. A good front rest and rear bag is much better, IMHO. Good front bipod can work as well, but, it would probably cost more than a decent front rest.

[Ernest T]

No experience with a 375 H&H, but I lived in Alaska for awhile in the 80s thanks to Uncle Sam. I took a 338 Win mag with me and it was more than enough gun for hunting there. I got <1 1/2" groups out of factory ammo at the time. Then, I met a guy who reloaded and he taught me how to reload for accuracy. It wasn't nearly as scientific as it is today, but we managed to get tighten the groups considerably with handloads. I'd think with todays equipment and knowledge base, you'd have no problem getting sub MOA groups out of that cartridge if the barrel was up to it.

[Ernest T]

Lead sleds are not near as consistent as some people believe. A good front rest and rear bag is much better, IMHO. Good front bipod can work as well, but, it would probably cost more than a decent front rest.

I'm intrigued by the sled Keith, from Winning in the Wind, uses. I use bags now, but because I use a bench and shoot at different ranges, I've had to buy several different rear bags because the angle I shoot at changes from place to place and what works here won't work there.

[Dave Hoback]

Eh… they take all the fun out of it, the lead sled or other full hold fixtures. Hell… why not just have someone else shoot it for ya? LOL!

[Whynot]

I don't understand lead sleds at all- why develop a load that shoots good off of a sled that you will not have with you when you are using the gun? I understand the idea- develop a good load for the gun without getting beat up in the process- but a lot of guns shoot way different going from a sled to without one.

[Dave Hoback]

The sled doesn’t actually impart any difference in load-shooting capability; rather the difference is the human inconsistency. A holding fixture does not move, we do.

Really no different than a ransom rest. I believe the human factor should be part of it. I like using a Bipod, as it teaches steady holding. I think.

[Whynot]

^
I admit that I've not done elaborate testing on this.... but as for my understanding I will have to respectfully disagree.

Not saying these are facts- but as I see it-

Much of the recoil of the rifle does happen after the bullet has left the barrel, but not all of it. If you change how the rifle can (or can't) move then it will cause POI differences. Obviously how much weight you use plays into this and if you are just reducing a little or trying to completely stop recoil.

And this may be just shooters lore- but have heard many stories about how hard lead sleds are on scopes, action screws, all the way to even cracking stocks....

I shoot off of a rest sometimes- but also prefer using a bipod because of the consistency of always having the support in the same spot.

[bootsmcguire]

Never owned a lead sled and never felt I would have the need until now. I guess my current train of thought is to remove as much of the human error as possible to develop the rifles full potential, and then proven I can work on the human error side of things. If I need to adjust my POA when introducing the human side that's fine. With the rifle performing well then that eliminates all but the human error and lets me adjust myself for that. Seemed prudent to me given that when working up loads you work with one variable at a time instead of taking on multiple.

FWIW I was using a basic machine rest and rear bag when doing the sight in mentioned in the OP.

[J.Baker]

While not common here in the U.S., big-bore competitive shooting is a thing in some parts of the world and the .375 H&H is one of the most commonly used cartridges for it. The .375 H&H has a fairly flat trajectory (comparatively speaking) with modern ballistic tip boat tail bullets like the Nosler 260 and 300gr AccuBonds.

[charlie b]

I can't help with the recoil thing. I am just glad I didn't buy a .338 Lapua when I saw one for sale marked down a lot :) I use a good shoulder pad when shooting 175 SMKs and cast 210gn bullets in my .308Win.

[bootsmcguire]

Thanks guys, I'll keep plugging away at it then. Heading out now to try my side discharge brake I machined out the other day, maybe that will be enough to tame her a bit.

[bootsmcguire]

Well tried her again and the brake made a ton of difference, 3 shot group in 1.25in at 150yds. Looks like I was mostly fighting human error due to recoil, or at least that is my prognosis at the moment. Good enough for hunting next week as most shots should be 200yd or less this year, and I will work on fine tuning further before the next season. Now the interesting factor is going to be seeing how these boolits perform on the deer. Thanks for all the replies thus far, and again anyone thinks up a helpful tip I am all ears.

[Ernest T]

Well tried her again and the brake made a ton of difference, 3 shot group in 1.25in at 150yds. Looks like I was mostly fighting human error due to recoil, or at least that is my prognosis at the moment. Good enough for hunting next week as most shots should be 200yd or less this year, and I will work on fine tuning further before the next season. Now the interesting factor is going to be seeing how these boolits perform on the deer. Thanks for all the replies thus far, and again anyone thinks up a helpful tip I am all ears.
Glad to hear you're sorted out, at least for this trip.

[BobT]

I shot several hundred rounds from my .375 H&H while getting ready for Africa, my go to load for deer and hogs was an old style Hornady 270 grain soft point with a starting load of H4895 and a Federal 215 primer. I got sub MOA results from this load, also from the 300 grain Sierra, the 300 grain Swift A-frame and the 260 grain Nosler Accubond, the 300 grain Cutting Edge solids were slightly under MOA as well. The only bullets I could not get to shoot were the Barnes X bullets, I tried the 235 and 300 grain Barnes and neither grouped well in my rifle. Regarding the lead sled, my son-in-law split the walnut stock on his TC Encore in .270 Winchester while shooting off his.