Well, that was disappointing

[Mr.Snerdly]

Shot the 6.5 Creedmoor today that I got late yesterday. Groups from 1 1/2"-over 2". I am hoping it is the mounts being improperly torqued. I know what you are saying, I should have checked them first but I didn't. I really don't know what they were on the scope itself but it didn't take much effort at all. On the base mount I set the torque screwdriver on 5# and it removed them. It could have been maybe 3 or even 2#, who knows. I am mounting a higher quality scope, Loctiting the base screws to 20" # and the rings to 17. I hope this helps. This is factory ammo so that could be part of it too but not a great start.

[prdatr]

I'm sure that was a big part of the problem if not all of it.

[Dave Hoback]

Is it a combo rifle from Savage, or did you have someone else install the components. I stress to anyone purchasing a combo, or any rifle for that matter, check not only the Scope Base(s) & rings, but also the Action screws. Loosen & re-torque to proper specs. Loctite on base screws only. And if you don’t know how, LEARN!

Here are Action screw Torque specs. (Leave the rear a bit less)
https://service.savagearms.com/hc/en-us/articles/214238343-What-is-the-torque-spec-for-my-action-screws-

[Mr.Snerdly]

Is it a combo rifle from Savage, or did you have someone else install the components. I stress to anyone purchasing a combo, or any rifle for that matter, check not only the Scope Base(s) & rings, but also the Action screws. Loosen & re-torque to proper specs. Loctite on base screws only. And if you don’t know how, LEARN!

Here are Action screw Torque specs. (Leave the rear a bit less)
https://service.savagearms.com/hc/en-us/articles/214238343-What-is-the-torque-spec-for-my-action-screws-


Yes, it was a package gun. I should have known better but I wanted to try it out. I mounted a Bushnell 6-24 scope this morning, put blue Loctite on the base screws, 25 " # of torque, 35 on the rail mount, 17 on the rings. Waiting for the Loctite to dry, probably try it again tomorrow. I adjusted the trigger and torqued them to 40. The user manual said 40. I think the Axis has a different torque spec than the 110.

It's funny how they price things. $400 for the package gun, $400 for the same gun bare. I knew the scope wouldn't be great but I figured at the least I could use the base mount. Rings were too small for the Bushnell scope.

[charlie b]

I used the combo scope on my Axis for a couple of years. It was a cheap Bushnell 4-12. Plain duplex reticle but it seemed to track really well. Optical clarity wasn't the best but it worked. When I got a Vortex for it I gave the scope to a guy on the Cast Boolits forum. He's still using it 4 yrs later.

[deaddeerwalking]

Is it a new rifle? Remember you have to break the bore in. I would not look for accuracy until I had at least 50 rounds through it. Shot 2 clean the bore. Shoot 2 clean the bore. Shoot 5 clean the bore. Repeat 5 for 25 rounds then increase to 10 rounds until you get to 50 or 60 rounds through the bore. Now you can begin to look for accuracy.

[Turkeytider]

Is it a combo rifle from Savage, or did you have someone else install the components. I stress to anyone purchasing a combo, or any rifle for that matter, check not only the Scope Base(s) & rings, but also the Action screws. Loosen & re-torque to proper specs. Loctite on base screws only. And if you don’t know how, LEARN!

Here are Action screw Torque specs. (Leave the rear a bit less)
https://service.savagearms.com/hc/en-us/articles/214238343-What-is-the-torque-spec-for-my-action-screws-

Dave, do you recommend starting at the lower end of the ranges? Middle? In practicality, how much difference in performance should one expect with incremental changes between 30 and 35 ft/lbs? Both of my Savage rifles ( 223 which is a combo and a used17HMR with scope from Guns International ) arrived with mounted scopes. Both are sub-MOA capable at 100 yards, so I`ve left everything alone. What to look for if action screws or scope related screws loosen up?

[Dave Hoback]

Dave, do you recommend starting at the lower end of the ranges? Middle? In practicality, how much difference in performance should one expect with incremental changes between 30 and 35 ft/lbs? Both of my Savage rifles ( 223 which is a combo and a used17HMR with scope from Guns International ) arrived with mounted scopes. Both are sub-MOA capable at 100 yards, so I`ve left everything alone. What to look for if action screws or scope related screws loosen up?

I don’t. I’ve never really been one of the Action screw “tuners”, so to speak. Never really noticed any difference myself. I do leave the rear screw just a bit less. But I mean 5–10in.lbs. Even then, I haven’t noticed any difference. But, some people do. So they say. Honestly.. I think there is more difference in .2gr difference in charge weight when reloading, than with trying to tune Action Screw torque. I’m not a believer in the rifle having some perfect harmonics setting, where a couple Inch.Lbs. of torque will make a discernible difference. I’m a believer in creep. The screws should be as tight as possible without stressing either the Action or Stock.

But that’s just me. I would never tell someone NOT to test it themselves! No sir.. I am a fundamental believer in DIY research. Your results may vary from my own. And especially with such an easy set of parameters to test. Right?

[charlie b]

Just to make sure...it is not 30-35 FT-lb. In-lb Use a 'little' torque wrench, not the one you use on cars.

FWIW, the action torque tune only works if the action is properly bedded to start with. If not you will be chasing your tail.

With a bedded action and pillars I have not seen a difference with screw torque. I think it is very dependent on the stock you are using.

[Mr.Snerdly]

No better with everything torqued properly and a different scope. I have never had a rifle shoot this poorly. I fiddled with the 223 Axis today and my best group was 3/16". Other groups were not that good but that was with the expensive 69 grain Sierras. The Hornady 52 grain, which are a good bullet but not as pricey, was from 7/16"-7/8" but I think wind could have affected it some. It was almost dead calm with the 3/16 group. Savage can build accurate rifles but I suppose a dud slips through occasionally. I probably should not expect the same accuracy from a 6.5 as a 223 though, I admit.

I have a bunch of reloading stuff coming tomorrow for the 6.5, including premium bullets. I hope as it gets more rounds through it and with handloading it will improve but it has a hell of a ways to go to get accurate.

[Turkeytider]

I don’t. I’ve never really been one of the Action screw “tuners”, so to speak. Never really noticed any difference myself. I do leave the rear screw just a bit less. But I mean 5–10in.lbs. Even then, I haven’t noticed any difference. But, some people do. So they say. Honestly.. I think there is more difference in .2gr difference in charge weight when reloading, than with trying to tune Action Screw torque. I’m not a believer in the rifle having some perfect harmonics setting, where a couple Inch.Lbs. of torque will make a discernible difference. I’m a believer in creep. The screws should be as tight as possible without stressing either the Action or Stock.

But that’s just me. I would never tell someone NOT to test it themselves! No sir.. I am a fundamental believer in DIY research. Your results may vary from my own. And especially with such an easy set of parameters to test. Right?

Thanks Dave. And I meant in.lbs, not ft. lbs.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh, I didn’t even notice you had said “Foot” lbs., LOL! I was simply stating it as I always do. Barlow actually noticed and reiterated a reminder.. hahaha.

Ok, so so change. That’s ok. One more questioned answered. The next thing I’ll ask, is what ammunition were you using? Factory? Reloads? One kind this whole time? Different kinds, weight bullets, powder, etc.? If nothing there, my next recommendation is betting the stock. Could very well having something weird going on with it.

[charlie b]

.... I probably should not expect the same accuracy from a 6.5 as a 223 though, I admit.

I have a bunch of reloading stuff coming tomorrow for the 6.5, including premium bullets. I hope as it gets more rounds through it and with handloading it will improve but it has a hell of a ways to go to get accurate.

From what I have seen of other Savage's at the range the 6.5's seem to shoot better than the .223. Your group sizes are what my .223 did when I first fired it.

It might be just a "break in" problem. My Axis took a while to settle in, as in 3-400 rounds. Part of that was due to me not being consistent about cleaning all the copper out each time it was shot. Even my 12BVSS took 200 rounds to reach a decent level of accuracy. I ended up using some Iosso bore paste on it to help it along. Until recently it was very picky about being cleaned after each shooting session.

Premium bullets and cartridges do help a lot. I would expect MOA from commercial match ammo.

[Robinhood]

Torque tuning is not a blanket fix for all stocks and trigger guards. A material that flows will be completely different than one that has pillars or and aluminum bedding block and metal trigger guard. I trusted a package scope once. Not twice. I am very happy for the people who have had success with the 39 dollar glass. I quickly purchased something that had a reputation for holding up. Vortex was never in the mix. I am also happy for the guys that have been happy with their Vortex. With the exception of the Razor level or AMG, I have seen too many have issues.

[Dave Hoback]

I agree. My first Savage, 111 was a Combo gun. 30-06 and had the Simmons 3-9x40. LOL! Oh I thought that thing was so accurate. (I wad 18, be nice.)

[Mr.Snerdly]

Torque tuning is not a blanket fix for all stocks and trigger guards. A material that flows will be completely different than one that has pillas or and alluminum bedding block and metal trigger gaurd.

I trusted a package scope once. Not twice. I am very happy for the people who have had success with the 39 dollar glass. I quickly purchased something that had a reputation for holding up. Vortex was never in the mix. I am also happy for the guys that have been happy with their Vortex. With the exception of the Razor level or AMG, I have seen too many have issues.


I had two of the Vortex Vipers go bad. I finally sold one of them but I told the guy Vortex had a quality control problem. He seems to think Vortex stuff is great and I admit, some seem to have good luck but I didn't. He seemed happy to get it, I was happy to be rid of it. I like my Bushnell Nitro scopes. I think they are a pretty good deal for a moderately priced scope.

[charlie b]

I have a Viper and Diamondback. Both have been really good for me. No issues at all.

I have just been lucky with scopes. Only ever had one fail (Remington .22rf package scope) and I mostly bought the cheap stuff. One was a Tasco 3-9. I think I paid $30 for it. Got it in 1984 and it went on a Rem 788 in 7mm-08. Went on a lot of deer hunting trips with it. About 10 years later it was moved to an inline muzzle loader and went on more hunts. About 2010 it was given to a family member who continues to hunt with it.

[Turkeytider]

I had two of the Vortex Vipers go bad. I finally sold one of them but I told the guy Vortex had a quality control problem. He seems to think Vortex stuff is great and I admit, some seem to have good luck but I didn't. He seemed happy to get it, I was happy to be rid of it. I like my Bushnell Nitro scopes. I think they are a pretty good deal for a moderately priced scope.

Knock on wood, both of my Vortex Crossfire IIs have been fine. One came on a package .223 110 Storm and the other on a lightly used Savage 93R 17 from Guns International. Needless to say, neither takes the recoil of bigger calibers. Savage says that the scopes are bore sighted out of the box and I certainly found that to be the case with my .223. If memory serves, about 3" high and 4" right out of the box.

[wbm]

I quickly purchased something that had a reputation for holding up. Vortex was never in the mix.

Same here.

[Turkeytider]

I`m a real neophyte when it comes to both rifle shooting and scopes so please excuse the very basic question. What are the hallmarks of a scope that has " gone bad" ? Are there some common indicators ? Thanks guys from a rookie!