One More Bolt Lift Idea

[wbm]

https://deshind.com/2022/10/15/another-way-to-make-savage-bolt-lift-easier/

[Dave Hoback]

Huh.. I’ve never even noticed a set screw in any rear baffles. Thought they were all the dual bearing. Interesting. I actually replaced the bearing in my my baffle with either Silicone Nitride or Tungsten balls(can’t remember which without looking). The baffle spins on my bolt very easy…no resistance at all. His video showing the lift still seems more difficult than the video I’ve posted.

Thank you for posting this. Glad I learned the older baffles used a set screw.

[wbm]

Thank you for posting this. Glad I learned the older baffles used a set screw

Was hoping you would give this a review.

[Dave Hoback]

It makes perfect sense. If the set screw is too tight, driving the bearing ball into the bolt body, absolutely it will be heavier. Like I said, I’ve never noticed one with a set screw, only the dual bearing balls locking each other in. I would bet this is the reason for those cases of EXTRA heavy lift we’ve heard about, no matter what was done. If I had an older Bolt, I would certainly check this! Make certain the screw is only barely touching. I’m guessing, it’s still also using a spring? But yes, very little resistance. Don’t want it loose obviously. The Baffle should not free spin, so maybe my comment above is misleading. I meant mine spins easy by hand pressure. So it’s not adding anything extra on the bolt.

[wbm]

Don't remember ever seeing a set screw either, even on my old F Model, but can't say I ever looked.

[Robinhood]

Now we just need a sleeved cocking piece pin(to reduce friction) and a roller bearing on the end of it due to counter rotation(drag)

[J.Baker]

Was talking to Fred about this last night. The rear baffle with set screw's were an experiment by Savage to increase production efficiency, but it proved to be more problematic than beneficial in the assembly process. Less than 1,000 such baffles ever made it out to the public.

As for that bolt lift kit/bearing he discusses, that same idea was shared here on the forum years ago (2005-06 time frame). General consensus (and common sense) concluded it wasn't nearly as effective as the single detent ball and .38 Spl. case head style kit. Of course he didn't like that his "ingenious" idea got shot down so he took his ball and went stomping off back to his secret laboratory. Basically it was intended to be a bolt lightening option for the then new cocking indicator feature that protruded through the BAS.

[Dave Hoback]

Sure would like to see some of that back & forth.:( Everyone I’ve seen talk about Desh seems very happy with his offerings. Granted, I prefer the single, center point of contact as well. And yes, they do work better. Anyone who has studied anything about coefficient of friction knows that. However, Desh’s kits are good for the One-Piece firing pins. (And that style with the indicator, though I’d lop that thing off post hast!) Anyhoo… haven’t seen anyone dissatisfied with his wares.

So, why the hostility towards Ben Jim? The article in question had to do with the set screw causing the extra lift. It wasn’t about Desh’s multi bearing Lift kit vs Single, Center bearing style. So I can certainly understand someone having one of these with the set screw extremely tight, causing significantly more bolt lift, even after installing a Lift Kit & having no idea how to fix it. So I’m gonna say great article! Thank you Ben for writing it, and wbm for posting it here.

[J.Baker]

No hostility, just satirical sarcasm - hence the "took his ball (bearings) and went..." joke. The only reason I brought up the multi-bearing kit is because I saw the pic and reference to it in the article and I remembered all the drama it brought up here on the forum back in the day. So much so that it even prompted Fred to take the time to dig through his notebooks to gather the data to write this:

https://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?126-Understanding-Bolt-Lift-Kits

Experimentation is fine and dandy, it's how we learn what works and what doesn't. The problem in this case was that this person (Desh?) was pushing a product that hadn't been tested and validated. What he wanted was our forum members to be his guinea pigs rather than do said testing on his own, and was offering it to whomever would be willing to be said guinea pig. That's not how you do business, and yes - even at that time he made it clear this was something he was wanting to market/sell. That's primarily what prompted Fred to compose the article above.

I'm sure if you dug long and hard enough you could probably find that old thread here on the forum, but with the search being as worthless as it is I'm not going to bother looking for it. Fred and several other very knowledgeable members here were engaged in the thread trying to educate him, but he was adamant that his way was better. As the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." His kit has it's place for the 1-piece firing pins, but that wasn't the argument he was making at the time. Yes it was inspired by that design change, but he was also trying to claim it was also superior to the single ball bearing method for the adjustable style firing pin assemblies which simply isn't the case.