Defective bullets?

[Mr.Snerdly]

I got some heavier bullets for deer hunting and was loading them up when I discovered a few of them didn't seem to offer enough resistance when seating them. A couple I could actually push in the case deeper by hand. I checked these against another brand and by the calipers they were .0005" undersize. A caliper isn't the most accurate thing in the world (at least the digital ones) so I used an actual micrometer and there was .0006" undersize. The caliper was off by .0005" though, it was .0005" under the actual size but at least it was within .0001" on the size DIFFERENCE. Actual size of the undersized one was .224".

This brass was neck sized. Do you think I should try full length resizing? Theoretically it should make no difference but things aren't made absolutely perfect, it may be possible the full length sizer may get a little more neck tension.

[Stumpkiller]

Sounds like you need a smaller expander “cherry”.

I use a separate expander die.

[charlie b]

I got lost in the description. Are the bullets undersize or not?

Which die are you using? If it is the Lee collet then you might want to do two things. Take it apart and clean it well, polish the 'sliding' portions. The steel used is not that hard and benefits from a good lube in there. Second, make sure you are running the cases fully into the die. I have found, especially with a bit of grit in the die) that sometimes the collet won't 'close' all the way.

[Mr.Snerdly]

^^^^Well, I guess they are undersize. I have never had this trouble before. The ones giving trouble measure .224" and the others measure .2246". This is using the micrometer so it is an accurate measurement. I am using the Lee collet die. I will take it apart and clean it and see if that helps.

[Txhillbilly]

How many times have the cases been fired? The necks can / will spring back if the cases are work hardened after you resize them.
The cases may need to be annealed.
If the bullet's OD is .224", it is correct for the caliber.

[Mr.Snerdly]

I resized full length on a few brass and it seems they don't have the problem. I did a little reading and I guess the Lee collet neck sizer doesn't have as much neck tension. This brass hasn't been fired too much but maybe I should anneal it anyway. It will have to wait though, most of it is primed and I will use the bullets with the slightly larger diameter and after firing anneal the brass Don't know if that would do the trick or not but for now I will just full length resize for this particular bullet. I checked some other bullets and they all measured more than .224". Some were not .2246" but they were all a little more than .224". I suppose I was just on the edge of having enough tension on the other bullets that there was no apparent problem but I think .001" interference is about the minimum you should have. Too much isn't good either but between .001" and .002" should be about right I would think.

[Steeltrap]

https://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2021/07/tips-for-using-lee-collet-dies-for-neck-sizing-brass/

Tips for using the Lee Collet Die. I've had a few....mebby 3 different calibers that I've used the Lee Collet die. For me...they have always been a PITA to constantly have to "tinker" with to get them to work right.

I'm quite sure the one's that I own have been quietly sitting in\on a shelf....gathering dust. They are just to frustrating to work with.

[charlie b]

I use my collet dies a lot. Each has thousands of round through them. Even when I full length size I run the case into the collet die. I like how consistent they make the neck. Like that article said, the runout is very, very small.

IIRC the 'normal' amount of neck tension calls for a neck to be .002 to .006 smaller than the bullet. Yes, .0006 will make a difference in tension, but, sounds like something else is going on.

[Mr.Snerdly]

I use my collet dies a lot. Each has thousands of round through them. Even when I full length size I run the case into the collet die. I like how consistent they make the neck. Like that article said, the runout is very, very small.

IIRC the 'normal' amount of neck tension calls for a neck to be .002 to .006 smaller than the bullet. Yes, .0006 will make a difference in tension, but, sounds like something else is going on.

I've really never had a problem with the collet resizer before. I like them. Way faster and a lot less work than full length resizing every time. No lube to mess with, no cleaning the brass afterwards and they shoot as good, if not better, than full length resized. It does seem to make sense that after firing the case more closely conforms to the chamber and theoretically should be more accurate. You hear all kinds of opinions on this but I can't see the advantage of full length resizing every time. Of course it is necessary after several reloads but not every time, in my opinion.

[charlie b]

If you want to have the most reliable action then full length sizing each time is the way to go. It insures that the loaded round will chamber smoothly and eject cleanly.

Neck sizing means that sometimes a case will 'grow' enough to stick a bit. Not much, just enough to slow down the action. Extreme instances a rap on the bolt handle may be needed to extract a round.

Best is a full length die custom made for your chamber. Not cheap.

[Txhillbilly]

The only full length sizing dies I use are for my semi auto rifles, everything else gets neck sizing dies plus a body die that the cases get run thru every time I anneal the cases (every 2-3 firings). All of my sizing dies are bushing dies, that way I can set / adjust the amount of neck tension I want.

[Whynot]

In my opinion...

Neck sizing should be completely done away with- the definite issues with it just do not outweigh the supposed benefits. But you also have to use the full length sizing die the correct way- where you adjust the depth or use the redding competition shell holder sets so that you are only bumping the shoulder back .002. This way is more consistent because you get the same fit each time- instead of the increasing tight fit each time you neck size. Things also chamber much nicer and per the testing that i've seen the accuracy is just as good. Brass life doesn't suffer either because you are not returning it down to saami specs each time- but rather making a custom fit for your gun.

[charlie b]

Even when full length sizing I don't bump the shoulder. I guess you could say that I 'neck size' with a FL size die :)

[Robinhood]

How many times have the cases been fired? The necks can / will spring back if the cases are work hardened after you resize them.
The cases may need to be annealed.
If the bullet's OD is .224", it is correct for the caliber.


The only full length sizing dies I use are for my semi auto rifles, everything else gets neck sizing dies plus a body die that the cases get run thru every time I anneal the cases (every 2-3 firings). All of my sizing dies are bushing dies, that way I can set / adjust the amount of neck tension I want.

Anneal your brass and magically you will have neck tension on all of your bullets.

[wbm]

+1

[Txhillbilly]

In my opinion...

Neck sizing should be completely done away with- the definite issues with it just do not outweigh the supposed benefits. But you also have to use the full length sizing die the correct way- where you adjust the depth or use the redding competition shell holder sets so that you are only bumping the shoulder back .002. This way is more consistent because you get the same fit each time- instead of the increasing tight fit each time you neck size. Things also chamber much nicer and per the testing that i've seen the accuracy is just as good. Brass life doesn't suffer either because you are not returning it down to saami specs each time- but rather making a custom fit for your gun.

How many rifles do you have that shoot 5 shot groups under 1/2 MOA on a regular basis? Every rifle (8 of them)that I load with my neck sizing / neck bushing dies will do it almost every time they are shot.
The rifles that I still use full length sizing dies on shoot good, but they don't come close to the rifles that I neck size cases for.

I've only been reloading for 45+ years, so what do I know?

[Whynot]

How many rifles do you have that shoot 5 shot groups under 1/2 MOA on a regular basis? Every rifle (8 of them)that I load with my neck sizing / neck bushing dies will do it almost every time they are shot.
The rifles that I still use full length sizing dies on shoot good, but they don't come close to the rifles that I neck size cases for.

I've only been reloading for 45+ years, so what do I know?

To answer your question.... many. And also- so do you. Your rifles that are shooting those groups would also be capable of the same accuracy with full length sizing. Never said that neck sizing doesn't work- it does. The old idea that it works better has recently been being challenged by many-- and it is being proven to be an assumption. I also have neck sized for years.... and stopped because of the issues noted earlier. My accuracy did not decrease with the change.

And not trying to attack you- but your example of your guns that you full length size not shooting as good is completely irrelevant... You mentioned above that you only FL size on your semi auto guns-- so the fact that groups are bigger is kind of obvious- semi auto guns are generally not as accurate and more difficult to shoot.

[Mr.Snerdly]

To answer your question.... many. And also- so do you. Your rifles that are shooting those groups would also be capable of the same accuracy with full length sizing. Never said that neck sizing doesn't work- it does. The old idea that it works better has recently been being challenged by many-- and it is being proven to be an assumption. I also have neck sized for years.... and stopped because of the issues noted earlier. My accuracy did not decrease with the change.

And not trying to attack you- but your example of your guns that you full length size not shooting as good is completely irrelevant... You mentioned above that you only FL size on your semi auto guns-- so the fact that groups are bigger is kind of obvious- semi auto guns are generally not as accurate and more difficult to shoot.
I can't really say I have seen any accuracy difference between neck sizing and full length. Of course, I am not in the same league with some of you guys either. These bullets are not as accurate as my Hornady or Sierra. I don't know if the diameter difference has anything to do with or not. They are cheap bullets, I think I paid a little over 16 cents per bullet for them. They are good enough for deer hunting though. After getting the scope set for them the first group was 5/8" and the second improved to 1/2". Plenty good enough for deer at ranges deer are usually taken, in my opinion.

[wbm]

I've only been reloading for 45+ years, so what do I know?

A lot!

Been at it a few decades myself.

[Blue Avenger]

Even when full length sizing I don't bump the shoulder. I guess you could say that I 'neck size' with a FL size die :)


referred to as "Partial Sizing"