Loaded my first fifty rounds today

[CRJR]

I used pre fired Hornady brass , Federal Champion 215 primers , Magpro powder with 162 Hornady ELDX Match bullets .

I used Hornady's load data , I did ten of each , 60 , 62.4, 64.8, 67.2 and the max load of 69.6 grains .

I measured to the lands and my OAL was 3.420 . The OAL jumped around a bit as I went through the process , from 3.422 to 3.418 , not sure how or why ? Maybe my cheap calipers ?

I used the RCBS Matchmaker Dies , pretty slick really . https://i.ibb.co/cTRBRJ0/IMG-2323.jpg (https://ibb.co/dKXTXBF)

[celltech]

4 thou difference in the OAL is not much...it will be fine. Any reason why you are trying to seat them right up to the lands?

And good luck!

[CRJR]

4 thou difference in the OAL is not much...it will be fine. Any reason why you are trying to seat them right up to the lands?

And good luck!


Because I spend to much time researching on you tube probably , LOL

I am new to this , but thought taking out the "jump" to the lands would make for a more accurate round ? Yes ? No ?

[TXRoadlizard]

In the lands or at "jam" may or may not be more accurate depending on what your barrel likes. It may like a 10 or 20 thousandths jump better... Only one way to find out. If you are happy with how your load shoots, no reason to go further. I personally like to jump 20 thou in most of my loads. I have loaded Bergers with an 80 thou jump and they shot unbelievably well. Congrats on the first loads! I have been loading for a couple years in 6.5 CM, 5.56, 270 Win, and 45-70 Govt, and just ust started with 300 Win Mag. It... Is... Addictive!

[charlie b]

Yep, every bullet likes something different.

In my .308 the 155 Bergers liked to be seated into the lands. Hornady ELDM and Sierra Matchkings liked a bit of jump, 0.020-0.030. You also have to be careful with the powder load if you seat into the lands as it raises pressures a bit.

[Dave Hoback]

I concur. Might be better accuracy… might not be. This is the point of working up loads. But then, OAL should be your last thing to worry about. Figure out bullet & powder the barrel likes first, then play with seating depth.

[Robinhood]

I like my stuff in it when im trying to find a load. I take the broadest node and start in the middle working away from lands..

[Ernest T]

What caliber are you loading?

[CRJR]

What caliber are you loading?

7mm Rem Mag Savage Long Range Hunter

[rerun5]

I'd be very careful with max loads when seated to the lands, pressure could get pretty high.

[Blue Avenger]

I think most here will say as New reloaders we tended to get hooked on speed. You will find most are more accurate at 3/4 speed from max or a touch over. NEVER get in a rush to get to max. ALWAYS REMEMBER when pressure signs start to show it is not that your starting to get there, it is that you are already over! And nothing I said is guaranteed for all guns. With the same powder charge and bullet I have see no signs to having primers blown out with nothing more then a brass or primer change.

[charlie b]

I'll second that.

For many years I was a max load kinda guy. This was before I could afford a chronograph as well. I'd just load up to the max book pressure and go shoot. Kinda lucky I never hurt myself or one of my guns. Why did I change? .45 Long Colt in a Ruger Blackhawk. I shot really heavy loads out of that thing and it was FUN!! (I was in my late 30's at the time). At the same time I would shoot heavy .357 and .45acp loads. After about a year of this I found my wrist would be sore the day after shooting. After another year and it would be sore for several days. About that time the gun mag writer Taffin reported on the permanent damage his arm had suffered. Then I found out from an Army buddy that some of the snipers were reporting permanent shoulder damage from shooting the higher power rifles.

So, I backed off on my loads. What I discovered is my accuracy increased a LOT, both from me and from the weapons. Turns out most guns don't like to be fired at max loads and will group much better at slightly lower charges. Now days I am frequently closer to the book minimum charge than I am the max. If I need a bullet to go faster I change the rifle cartridge to one made for that velocity rather than 'pushing' a lower velocity cartridge.

I work up a load in just a few steps. I do this for each bullet and powder combination. I only do this for precision rifles. Most pistols or hunting rifles I just pick a load and shoot it. If it groups anywhere near where I want I leave it. You do need a chronograph for this.

1. Velocity ladder to determine the nodes of the barrel. I load up a set at 0.1gn intervals, usually across a 1 or 2 grain range. This is only one bullet per load. I do plot the bullet impact on the target. Plot the velocity/charge curve and there will be some 'flat' spots or placed where the vel does not change as much with a change in powder charge. This is a node. Note" there will be 'fliers' in this. Bullet velocities that land higher or lower than the curve. I usually toss that data point as it either represents a load that will be inconsistent or it is a round that I messed up the load.

2. I pick two nodes and then load up 5 rounds each. Pick the one with the smallest group.

3. I do another ladder, 0.1 and 0.2gn above and below, 5 rounds each. Pick the best.

4. Then a seating depth test. Start at a slight jam and work back in .005" increments. 3 rounds each. Pick one.

Done.


Without a chronograph you can still do ladder tests. Just start with 3 round groups. You will see a 'node' as the groups get a little smaller, then get larger again. Takes a few more rounds this way but it still works.

[PhilC]

Excellent posts from Blue Avenger and charlie b!

When I started "making ammo" in the mid-80s, it was primarily pistol but also for my 7RM. I found a mid-range charge met my objective so stopped there and never altered the recipe.

I did a quick search on the ELDX and found several posts where guys found they performed best off the lands, some as much as .080". Not all rifles, nor all bullets will perform best at or into the lands, most seemed to fall in the .020" - .030" off range.

Were that my rifle, and with component prices what they are, I'd start at touch to a couple thou off the lands and follow in .010" increments back to .050". Suspect you'll find a good node within that range.

[CRJR]

Wow , good stuff and thank you guys ! Now , I know this sounds stupid , but is there any reason for me not to just seat these a little deeper ? The ones I've already loaded ?
I have ten of each load weight , what if I seated three at .020 off and three at .030 off of each charge ? Or do two rounds each ? Start at ten off and work my way back ? Would two be enough to tell me anything ? Without a chronograph .

[charlie b]

If you want to check the differences that's what I would do. I'd do the .010 and .020, 5 each. Chrono is nice but not necessary.

[Mr.Snerdly]

Because I spend to much time researching on you tube probably , LOL

I am new to this , but thought taking out the "jump" to the lands would make for a more accurate round ? Yes ? No ?
You sound like me when I started. It does seem logical the closer you could get to the lands the better but that has not been my experience. In fact, most of what I shoot seems to like a pretty good jump. It may be different on extremely accurate, high dollar target rifles but not on my $300-$350 rifles. I think they are quite accurate, I have a couple that will do considerably better than .5 MOA with the right bullets. No doubt there are many on this board that would laugh at .3-.5 MOA but I think it is pretty decent.

I think the .004" differnce could be variation in the bullets. They aren't absolutely perfect.

[PhilC]

The target will tell you which load your rifle likes, a chronograph won't.

[CRJR]

Well , I got to the range today , I'm impressed . The first picture is factory loads on the left and reloads on the right , minimum charge and I was aiming at the top target , but a pretty nice group , Right ?
The next picture is at max load , and the group climbed back up to the target I was aiming at . Everything in between was just ok , IMO

https://i.ibb.co/tpRzmHT/IMG-2336-1.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/Mh9pZ5V/IMG-2339.jpghttps://i.ibb.co/6NBqsyk/IMG-2337.jpg

[Dave Hoback]

Awesome! “Holes touching”… =, muey, muey bueno! What’s more, ya gotta love the pretty much ALL of your loads shoot better than factory ammunition. I learned this from a friend many years ago, and I recite it to other, newer enthusiasts today: just basic case prep will typically give your reloads better accuracy than any factory ammunition. Of course this is not 100%. There are always exceptions, but the fact remains the majority of anything reloaded will yield greater accuracy than anything you pull off a shelf.

[Whynot]

Awesome! “Holes touching”… =, muey, muey bueno! What’s more, ya gotta love the pretty much ALL of your loads shoot better than factory ammunition. I learned this from a friend many years ago, and I recite it to other, newer enthusiasts today: just basic case prep will typically give your reloads better accuracy than any factory ammunition. Of course this is not 100%. There are always exceptions, but the fact remains the majority of anything reloaded will yield greater accuracy than anything you pull off a shelf.

That is a very questionable idea....

Hand loading allows you to personalize the round to what your rifle likes- but if you are not doing that- and just making quality reloads then no reason to expect it to shoot better than quality factory ammo. I know many people that don't reload and do very well with factory ammo in competitions. If you break down some premium factory ammo you will find the powder changes to be very consistent and the overall quality very high (yes- the cheap stuff can be all over). It can also be hard to get an accurate picture because often people with more shooting experience (more skilled) are the ones that reload....