New guy questions ....

[CRJR]

First time reloading , still assembling my stuff , but ...



1. Is all Hornady brass the same ? Like I have Hornady Superformance brass and Hornady ELD Hunter brass in 7mm rem mag , but is it the same casing ?
2. How many times can I expect to be able to reload the same cases ?
3. I have Federal Champion Large Rifle Magnum 215 primers and ELD Match 162 bullets , where should I start with powder ? I have Accurate Magpro powder ? Shooting my 26 inch 1/9.5 twist barrel ?
4. Also , I cleaned my brass in the vinegar and soap solution I saw on you tube , is that sufficient ?

I know this must sound bad , total beginner , but I will take all the advice you can give me , and thank in advance .

[Dave Hoback]

Doesn’t sound bad partner. We all started at some point.. baggin’ what I’m rakin’?

Cleaning how you did is fine. But honestly, I wouldn’t use vinegar. It attacks Copper in the Brass. Anyway, just make sure it’s rinsed with clean water thoroughly & dried completely. Putting the cases in the oven at 200 degrees for an hour works great! As far as I know, yes, all Hornady brass is the same. Meaning dimensions, case variation & such. As you become more vested, these will likely become your “plinking” brass & you will want to invest in some top shelf brass. (LAPUA, Norma, etc) For starting loads with powder: we’ll, that’s up to you. What are you reloading for? Hunting? Target practice..long or short range? Competition? Or just for the pleasure of it? If you don’t already have one, get yourself a reloading manual, and become absolutely familiar with the cartridge you are reloading. The big thing to remember, is NEVER LOAD MAXIMUM to start! And as a beginner… just never load maximum, period. I’d say start in the middle range of loadings. And typically increase like .2gr of powder at a time. Unless you are striving for mega-super accuracy! Which you shouldn’t be at this stage of the game. Your job right now is to learn. Educate yourself through & through. I encourage you learn about Powders as well. Learn the burn rate of different powders & which powders typically are used with certain calibers. There is a reason 4350 is used extensively in mid-range high power calibers. Learn why. These are good things to know & gives the reloader a route understanding.

[Dave Hoback]

Not your exact, but here’s a similar loading from Hodgdon for 7mm RemMag, using Accurate Mag Pro & 162gr A-Max pills.

https://i.ibb.co/3pX3dt3/F1-AFD899-BD4-A-421-A-B30-F-5975-B6-F5-D5-F9.png (https://ibb.co/ZBsjXyj)

So, you likely want to start a little higher than 65gr’s but you shouldn’t be too close at all to 71gr’s. Smellin’ what I’m Steppin’ in Cochise?

[Robinhood]

Brass cleaning: If you do not have the funds for a vibratory tumbler or a wet pin tumbler no problem. A large bowl or small bucket sized container. Maybe a gallon or plus. Fill with brass and cold water. Add a splash of of good dish soap. A teaspoon of lemi-shine(dish detergent booster purchased in the dish soap isle). Stir the water and brass around for several swirls and let it sit. Every few minutes stir again. Drain, rinse very well and dry. The oven way may discolor them but color doesn't mater. I lay mine out on a towel and let a fan blow on them.

Brass being equal. If the same brand, weigh them and sort them. The majority of them should weigh pretty close. Any that are 3-5 grains or more different put them in a different batch. If you do a match prep sort them before prep. Try to keep them fired the same number of times. As long as you don't put high pressure loads in them the brass can be expected to get a minimum of 4 firings. At that point annealing the necks and shoulders becomes important to maintain consistency IMHO. Proper care and usage with some manufactures brass can go 20 plus loads before primer pockets give up.

Primers and brass. FGMM primers, 215M's are fine for your cartridge as are the 215's. 162's are good also(with additional recoil) but I don't know anything about the powder primer brass combination you are using. Lots of recoil for an old guy. :)

Good luck, be careful, take your time and find as much information on reloading and your specific cartridge recipes. There is a lot of data online. Look up your powders manufacturer's web site.

From Hodgdon web site. Start around 64 grains and work your way up. Closely measured powder really helps with accuracy if that is one of your goals.



Accurate
MAGPRO
0.284"
3.290"

64.3
2,672
54,300 PSI

71.5
2,967
60,300 PSI

[CRJR]

Thanks guys !

I'm loading for accuracy mostly , but also to offset the cost of 7mm rem mag ammo and shoot a consist group . Finding ammo for my 7mm is hit or miss and it's frustrating to shoot cheap ammo .

I've been wanting to do this for a while , and hope to get good at it .

[Dave Hoback]

You will. It’s just retained knowledge. That’s the great thing. There’s no “Skill” involved in reloading. Just execution of learned knowledge. Oh, and learn pressure signs. Unless you want to spend the $800 on a PressureTrace II System, it’s pretty easy to become familiar with what that pressure does to brass. From flattened primers, to cases sticky in the chamber, and cases ruptured! We live in an time in which it’s so easy to learn all this.

[CRJR]

Thanks again , and I ordered some 4350 .

[Robinhood]

thanks again , and i ordered some 4350 .

4350 is too fast for a 7 mag.

[Dave Hoback]

Thanks again , and I ordered some 4350 .

Yeah, Robin is correct CRJR. That wasn’t my point when I mentioned it. The whole point of everything I said is you need to SLOW DOWN and just concentrate on learning. 4350 WON’T work for 7mm Mag. It’s for intermediate cartridges…. 308, 6.5 Creedmoor, 30-06, etc. I was encouraging you to learn WHY! Not just order it because someone told you about it. I apologize you misunderstood, but again.. just take a step back. Research. I researched for about a year before I ever loaded a single round.

[Robinhood]

I didn't see here you reomended 4350 Dave, I hope he can cancel the order. It is good for 30-06 and heavy 270 loads too.

[CRJR]

I didn't see here you reomended 4350 Dave, I hope he can cancel the order. It is good for 30-06 and heavy 270 loads too.


Thanks again , I cancelled that order , and yes Dave , I'm going to fast , I'll slow down .

Thanks to both you guys .

[Heart of Texas]

Start with a couple of books on reloading. Check websites of the powder manufacturers, bullet manufacturers. Many youtube videos available.

[Dave Hoback]

I didn't see here you reomended 4350 Dave, I hope he can cancel the order. It is good for 30-06 and heavy 270 loads too.

Oh Yeah.. I wasn’t recommending it for him. Ya know.. I was making a point of learning the characteristics of different powders & I used 4350 as a model. Why so many people with Intermediate cartridges(not Magnums) use it, And for him to learn from that. That’s all. He was able to cancel, so, no biggie. And he gets it now.

CRJR:
Always happy to help man, but remember, myself, Robin, Jim even the “Savage god” here Fred, when he graces members with his presence, not ANY of us ALONE is the quintessential singularity to any of these. Reloading, building, repairing… every knowledgeable person is a puzzle piece of info. But never rely on single person’s word entirely. Absolutely keep asking! But then go look elsewhere. Ask TEN other people. Read articles. Any research you can. You’ll find in time, you no longer need to ask. You’ll have the answer.

[Robinhood]

not ANY of us ALONE is the quintessential singularity to any of these. Reloading, building, repairing…

Speak for yourself Dave..............................:)

[PhilC]

I beg to differ, IMR4350 most certainly can be used with the 7RM. I used it for many years in mine with both the Nosler 150gr BT and 160gr PT with very respectable performance. My load with the 150BT was 61gr IMR4350, it was deadly accurate and would consistently print 3/4" 5 shot groups @ 100yds when I did my part with my plain jane flatback 110E.

Noslers current load data shows IMR4350 for both bullets I mention, in fact, they provide IMR4350 load data for every weight 7mm bullet they manufacture 120gr - 185gr - https://www.nosler.com/7mm-remington-magnum#EUWUVX4

Would IMR4350 be best in your rifle and choice of components, maybe, maybe not, but it most certainly can be used.

[Blue Avenger]

Hornady also lists IMR4350 in 7mm Rem Mag with some respectable speed in 140gr and less bullets.

[Dave Hoback]

Speak for yourself Dave..............................:)

LOL! Well…:rolleyes: I was trying to be modest. :cool:

[Dave Hoback]

Let me re-word not using 4350 with 7mm Mag. Yes it CAN be used. Just as Mag Pro powder CAN be used for 223. Hell, Black Powder can be loaded in any one of different Center Fire cartridges. But it ain’t gonna work well in most. Each like group of cartridges will have a range of powders that work best. Weather or not a person used so & so powder with good results, is not the way to teach those who are just learning. An experienced reloader has the knowledge to experiment. I don’t “ask” people can I use this or that…Or, Will so & so work with such & such. I already know the safety parameters to those questions. However, I would never instruct a new reloader to experiment using fast burning powders for their cartridge. That is a recipe for KABOOM! Everything I recommend is from an Instructors pov. I was always a “good” shooter, but it’s been limited some on account of losing an eye, being disabled & such. But I was a “Damn Fine” Instructor! And while shooting is diminishing skillset, Instruction is not.

[CRJR]

Okay , break this down for me , please ? This is from hodgdons site , what is the data telling me ? The Magpro make less pressure but higher velocity ?

What makes one powder more desirable than the other ?

Twist: 1:9.500"
Barrel Length: 24.000"
Trim Length: 2.490"



BULLET WEIGHT
162 GR. HDY A-MAX

CASE
WINCHESTER

PRIMER
WINCHESTER LRM, LARGE RIFLE MAGNUM






Starting Load

Maximum Loads



Manufacturer
Powder

Bullet Diam.
C.O.L

Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure

Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure



Accurate
4350
BUY NOW (https://shop.hodgdon.com/product/140)
0.284"
3.290"

57.0
2,537
54,500 PSI

63.4
2,890
60,500 PSI




Accurate
MAGPRO
BUY NOW (https://shop.hodgdon.com/product/142)
0.284"
3.290"

64.3
2,672
54,300 PSI

71.5
2,967
60,300 PSI

[CFJunkie]

CRJR

Sorry for the long reply, but I think you might get some help from a bit of orientation.

There is no easy answer to your question.
First, I admit that I don't reload for 7mm Rem Mag. but I load for 10 rifle and 5 pistol calibers.
I have been precision loading for well more than a decade and stopped counting when I passed the 54,000 reload milestone.

I also admit that I have never been able to tell how well a particular powder will work for any particular barrel by looking at a loading manual or a powder distributor's web site.
I regularly find that two rifles in the same caliber, even from the same manufacturer and with the same barrel length, will shoot differently with the same powders.
The only way you can tell what your rifle prefers (powder, charge, pressure, velocity, etc.) is to try it.
So, I would suggest you don't go down the rabbit hole of trying what people claim to be their 'pet loads'.

Advice: One measured group tells you almost nothing about performance other than something worked or didn't work once.
You need to base your decisions on multiple groups if you want to really learn anything about performance of your loads.
I have kept records of every group I have shot with every rifle, powder, charge, bullet, seating depth, trim length, temperature, brass and primer since I started reloading.
My statements about preferences for each rifle are based on hundreds of measured groups.

One thing you might conclude from the table in post 19 is that Accurate 4350 probably burns faster than Mag Pro.
The amount of powder charge for the same bullet weight and the pressure the charge produced should give you a hint.

From my experience, faster burning powders seem to perform better with lighter bullets (but not always), and slower burning powders seem to perform better with heavier bullets.
Faster burning powders produce more pressure with a smaller charge and that results in greater acceleration of the bullet as long as the powder is burning but small charges burn out faster too.
Fast burning powders generally tend to result in over pressure in larger calibers if you try to fill cartridges with them.

Powders that burn slower build pressure more slowly but have the advantage of providing maximum acceleration to the bullet for a longer period in long barrels.
But the heavier the bullet is in any caliber, the faster the pressure will build, so you have to be careful to realize that a charge that works great for a lighter bullet weight doesn't always create an accurate or safe load with a heavier bullet.

Also, all powder tables for any caliber are based upon a particular barrel length, so you will find differences in recommendations from manual to manual and from website to website depending on what barrel length they test with.


Rifle preferences and powder use:
My two .223 bolt actions shoot 52 and 53 grain match bullets very accurately with H335 or N133, both fast burning rifle powders.
The same rifles shoot 69 and 77 grain match bullets with H4895, IMR4064, IMR4166 Enduron, and N140 moderate burning powders than are normally used in my .308s loads.
Some powders that are slightly faster than others will get my loads over PMax with the 77 grain bullets. So be careful and don't assume anything.
Start with the starting charges and watch for pressure indications as you increase powder charges when you are trying new powder and bullet weights.
Also remember that different bullet shapes in the same bullet weight may result pressure differences.
Bullet weight determines which powder will perform better, but your rifle barrel will also have preferences among bullets and powders that have similar burn rate characteristics.

In my 6.5mm CM rifles, the 123 and 130 grain bullets shoot very accurately with RL-17 but RL-17 won't shoot accurately with heavier bullets in my rifles.
The 140 to 147 grain bullets shoot best with slower burning H4350 that is also a preferred powder in my .30-06 and .270 rifles.
The powders that shoot great in my .308 rifles don't shoot as well in my 6.5mm CMs even though the cartridge is based on a necked down .30 short action cartridge similar to a .308 (actually a Thompson Center .30).
Of my three 6.5mm CM rifles, two shoot heavier bullets best and one shoots lighter bullets best. If you experiment with bullet weights and powders, your rifle will tell you what it prefers.

Also, don't be confused by the powder numbers. Don't get confused and presume that all powder with a 4350 number are the same.
My rifles shoot H4350 better than any other powder with heavier bullets, much better than IMR4350 loaded for the same velocity.
They produce different pressures loaded to produce the same velocity.
I admit that I have never tried AA 4350.

AA 4350 is not the same as IMR4350 and neither are the same as H4350.
If you are fortunate to find a powder manual that shows all three powders for the same bullet, you will find that the min and max charges are all different.
AA and IMR are close in charge range, but H4350 is a bit different.
Also, AA 4350 and IMR4350 are temperature sensitive - velocity changes about 155 fps with the same charge at 0 deg to 125 deg F. (That's 1.24 fps per degree F.)
H4350 is temperature insensitive - velocity changes about 8 fps with the same charge at 0 to 125 deg F. (That's 0.064 fps per degree F.)

As Dave H. and others have intimated, it takes a bit of practice before you will get comfortable with reloading but, even your first reloads will be an accomplishment because you will have learned something that will only improve as you load more rounds.
I have been learning and improving for years and now consider myself an adequate precision reloader.
But I continue to learn every time I try something new or buy a rifle in a new caliber.

The best way to learn is to get started. Reading up on proper procedure is good practice, but a better way is to find someone with experience to help you with your first loads.