Savage Guru gunsmith

[mattri]

https://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?66674-450-Bushmaster-Mag-Mods

Something like this is what I was thinking but could certainly be barking up the wrong tree.

[Fuj']

Im looking for someone to make my 17 Remington feed from a magazine as it should. "Adjust the feed lips," or go single shot are the only solutions.

What exactly does the cartridge do when you push it into the chamber ?? Looking
at the 17 Remington, It's basically a needle, and should not have much interference
being chambered. And what model Savage is this ?? Is it a blind magazine ??

[Blue Avenger]

some background in another post under his name where he said it was an axis action

[tomme boy]

Feed cone means a unsupported case head. You have to be very careful as not all brass has the web in the same place. That is why you see brass that looks like a belted mag case coming out of barrels like this. The 350 legend is one of the worst for this if using starline brass. Their web is shallower in the head and depending on the barrel they blow out a ring all the way around the case head. This happens with 223/556 ar barrels as well.

[J.Baker]

Cutting this barrel like that would make it far past too short if theres even enough shank there to do that. I called 4 barrel manufacturers before buying this shilen and every single one of them ensured me that this barrel would work and it sure dont. Kinda feel like I got screwed by shilen in a couple ways.

The problem here isn't the barrel, it's the end users attitude.

You asked for recommendations for a "Savage specialist" and a half-dozen or more folks pointed you to the best one out there. He even responds himself telling you what needs done. Yet you continue to insist you know better even though you clearly don't because you came here asking for help because you had no solution of your own.

Adding the feed cone Fred eluded to has zero effect on the length of the barrel as it's just a cut to add a small bevel to the mouth of the chamber as shown in Dave's above photo. Every single AR15 barrel out there chambered in .223/5.56 has this exact same cut in it as it's necessary to ensure reliable feeding - especially for longer VLD-style bullets and many of the more blunt faced hollow points. This is because of the smaller diameter of the case in comparison to the diameter of the barrel shank. Without the feed cone the tip of the bullet will often hit the square face of the breech of the barrel just below the chamber causing a jamb. The feed cone fixes that issue by providing a slight ramp to guide the tip of the bullet up into the chamber.

Every single Savage barrel I've owned over the last 20-some years that's been chambered for a small diameter case (.223, .222 Rem, .204 Ruger, .17 Rem, etc), whether it was a factory or aftermarket barrel, I've had Fred cut a feed cone into it to ensure reliable feeding and I've never had a single issue. It's the only way you'll ever get these smaller diameter cartridges to feed reliably in a Savage Axis or 110 with all types of bullets.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Well said Mr. Baker Sir!! :cool:

And even if you don't know it, I'am thinking you may have solved "my" feeding problem/issue with my 20 MGM Wildcat. (20 TCM)
Keep thinking it was the feed ramp/adapter issue but now I see it's a feed "cone" issue. THANK YOU!!

[Nor Cal Mikie]

SHARPSHOOTER (Fred)
You've got Too many PMs and you can't receive any more.
I need you to cut a "feed cone" on my 20 caliber barrel?
How much, how long and can I ship it? Mike.

[gbflyer]

I cut a “feed cone” on every barrel I chamber. Basically you’re just breaking a sharp edge. I was advised by Jim Borden not to exceed .140 total of unsupported case. It takes very little effort to do it and it makes all the difference in reliable feeding. Sharpshooter is 100% correct.

[Dave Hoback]

Every AR I’ve done has a cone. If it didn’t, rounds would jam left & right! As for 223/5.56 being unsupported with this; I’ve reloaded some seriously hot 223 in the past, and don’t get the raised ring (like a belted magnum case). It’s a non issue.

What Jim said is the truth. Several here know what they are doing, but Fred (sharpshooter)has the most extensive knowledge base. While I understand & can relay the concept, I’ve never dealt with & fixed a jamming 17 Rem. Fred very likely has seen more than a couple. Email him on his website & he will get you squared away.

[tomme boy]

I cant post pics but here is a couple of links that explains what I was talking about. It is an issue when you get tolerance stacking. To say it is a non issue is not a wise decision on your part. You have to be careful that the "smith" also knows about this and might ask a ? about which brass the customer is using. This is a common problem in AR rifles if you are around them enough.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7UwQrqYFHoG81w8f7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/59hcXKmkWmX6KYUg7

[wbm]

Thanks for the post Tommy Boy. Wow! That is as rare a term for shooting as "powder position sensitivity."


Anyway I had to look it up....Tolerance Staking: An engineering term that refers to the overall reliability of a system based on the combined deviations of its individual components.

Lot's of talk about "tolerance stacking" problems occurring from using "mix-and-match" parts for AR platforms...especially in bolt carrier groups.

https://www.sigtalk.com/threads/stacked-tolerances.91713/





(https://www.sigtalk.com/threads/stacked-tolerances.91713/)

[Dave Hoback]

Rare? Hmm… I’ve never thought it to be. It’s a term used used often & quite a normal concept for hobby machinists, builders & gunsmith like myself & others I’ve known. I would think the same for gunsmiths doing it full time.

Were you being sincere WBM? Or just being a it facetious? :p Because I’m fairly certain it’s been used here before.

[Flat Land Coaxer]

Just so we are clear, Im trying to figure this out. Its frustrating. My attitude is not poor. If you think that, get over it. I dont understand how this is gonna work in relation to where the current feed ramp is and how another "cone" behind that is gonna do anything at all. I have still not found any pics of a cone on a bolt action. I hafta see to know, thats how my mind works. Im not argueing with anyone, especially not sharp shooter. I cant think of how to ask the proper questions and those of you who insist on saying Im not listening, sure arent making any contributions to this thread.

[Flat Land Coaxer]

I tried to message you sharpshooter. I dont have access to private messaging apparently.

[Dave Hoback]

I think you are overthinking. Look at the picture I posted. That’s an AR barrel without the barrel extension. An AR barrel looks exactly like a bolt action barrel without the barrel extension.

You can’t message because of your post count. That’s why recommended you contact him through his Website. Here you go.
http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/

[Robinhood]

Your case head protrudes about .125" from the breach. That number is not arbitrary. It is slightly longer than the bolt head is deep on a 110/Axis action bolt,.115". Just enough clearance to not rub. I am sure there is some deviation from the drawing below, but if you look at it the outer face of the bolt head covers but does not control the base dimension of .3772". I should mention the bore on the bolt head is probably close to .385".

Using GBflyers dimension of .140" as a max the question for me, which relates to the question you should have is, What is the angle to cut that would be of the most assistance to your specific issue. I am not so sure, depending on the mentioned web thickness(Blue Avenger)but a total of .145" of exposed case may not be an issue. Cutting the case in half lengthwise may give you some comfort but that is the weeds for me.

So we are now set at somewhere between .015" and a possible .020" of material removed from the smallest dimension at the breach(.37X) in a cone shape with the edge of the cone being somewhere outside of where the nose of the bullet currently slams into the flat breach of the barrel.

Losing .015" of chamber length is something but it is probably not enough to substantiate your fears. If someone knows enough to disagree with that please chime in. Thanks to all of the knowledgeable contributions. Good luck Flat Land Coaxer.

[Flat Land Coaxer]

Light bulb finally came on! Whew. Would you have to re-reem the chamber? It seems like there would be a lot of case sticking out?

[Dave Hoback]

No. Not changing the chamber depth at all, as it relates to Action & bolt face. Even the headspace would be the same as before without the cone. Like I said… your overthinking it.

[sharpshooter]

I actually built a cutter to do it without removing the barrel.

[wbm]

Good luck Flat Land Coaxer.

+1