My New Scope! (Pics)

[Dave Hoback]

I’ve been searching for some time now. In the end it came down to the Athlon Cronus,(already am a big fan of Athlon), and the US Optics TS-20. And before anyone asks, “why not the Athlon Aries ETR?” Sure, they have BOTH a 4.5-30x56 & a 3-18x50. Both very nice. But they just didn’t do it for me. The ETR is longer than I wanted(and I do prefer 50mm). Ok, the ETR 3-18x50 had seemingly everything, right? 34mm tube, 50mm objective & shorter! Well, my cutoff for LOWEST Max power is 20x. Just what I wanted. But the Cronus was I the running. I mean food the last YEAR! And yes, almost everyone was saying go with Cronus. Japanese made, yadda, yadda. Yes, I know. But honestly, my cutoff really was $1000. Just my budget. And NO, FOR ME, it’s not a matter of just saving some more. I’ve already said this, $1K is my cutoff for the shooting I do anymore. And guys, that’s NOT me saying everyone else is wrong. So please don’t post that. I do not have an opinion either way for what another chooses. This is MY choice alone I’m speaking of. :redface-new: So the price, coupled with the objective I wanted, I chose the USO TS-20 with GENIIXR illuminated Reticle. As it stands, I’m glad I did.

First thing first, it has very clear glass. Very bright image with good color. Eyebox is not bad at Max(MUCH better than my Athlon Midas BTR at the same 20x. And I’ve still been happy with the Midas.) Now, I’m not really one for “unboxings” or showing the box. I care what’s IN the box!....but I know some are interested. And if I’m being honest(and I always am), HIGHER quality products do typically come in NICER boxes. Kinda makes sense. And for that, the US Otics box is beautiful. Larger than the Athlon box with much better packing. Although, the Athlon box is still quite nice. The USO box being larger, is completely lined with foam. Even has a foam cap on top, (Which I do appreciate.)
https://i.ibb.co/qnVPLVF/ED4497-AD-9895-46-CA-9615-31-A5-E7-A858-CA.jpg (https://ibb.co/g7hBbhF)

Comes with flip up caps, which is nice. Wish it came with a sunshade though. But then, my Midas didn’t come with the sunshade OR flip ups. I had to buy those separate. No biggie, but eh. Comparing the 2, the TS-20 just looks and FEELS of MUCH higher quality. It “feels” more solid; and it’s not not the weight. Although the Midas is lighter at 26OZ, the TS-20 is just under 29OZ. Not even 3OZ difference. But I guess that could account for somewhat thicker tubing. Not sure. Anyway, just feels better. Everything is tight, but not too tight. No slop in anything. Eventually I’ll do tracking tests, but it’s already been done by many people. It tracks VERY well in the reviews I’ve seen & so far toughness is not an issue(been out since 2019, not exactly BRAND NEW)
https://i.ibb.co/4tVyqGD/12-EBDBB6-49-F3-4936-B36-D-91-CEA40005-E4.jpg (https://ibb.co/C8HdcZX)

The TS-20 at 14.6” is slightly longer than the Midas at 13.8”, but still within my “want” for length. Again, Turrets,
Parallax & Illumination dials all very nice w/ ZERO slop. The Turrets have that crisp feel. The “Tactile” feel which it’s referred to. And the sound is SUPER nice! Loud “TICK” for every, well..., tick of rotation. Sure, some guys act like they don’t care, but we ALL like it! One of those things that used to be TIP to quality. But most makers have identified that and put money into JUST how the Turrets feel & sound now. So it’s not necessarily an automatic measure of quality anymore. Still a nice thing, IMO.
https://i.ibb.co/K98yjxX/713972-C2-90-E4-4-EE6-83-B0-FAA961-DF31-A4.jpg (https://ibb.co/XzGJZxb)

I was initially worried about it fitting in my mount. I thought I was going to have to get rings or a new mount going to a 34mm main tube from 30mm. But my AD-Recon-S QD mount has replacement 34mm ring sets available. I was able to find a set for a great price! Much cheaper than replacement rings or the only mounts that I was interested in switching to; being the Spuhr and especially the Tier One. But at $410 & $390 respectively, no thanks! A couple reviewers had some trouble with the TS-20 fitting their particular 1-piece Picatinny mount, because the center section of the scope does go below the bottom of main tube a bit. However, as you can see, it was no problem for my AD-Recon-S mount, now with the 34mm ring set.
https://i.ibb.co/Dk2D2zT/5-F648278-1-F9-D-4-C0-E-B98-C-4-E34116-A4-F30.jpg (https://ibb.co/gwKMKmh)

In the end, I’m very happy with this purchase. The MSRP is $1495 and many places are selling in the $1300-$1400 range. Little steep for me. But with research, you can find it MUCH cheaper. And for what I paid, BRAND NEW, it’s punching FAR above its weight class in quality. Of course it’s not going to fit many. Definitely not competition guys. It does not have locking Turrets, and although it does have a Zero Stop, it’s actually just a Rotation Limiter. So when Zeroed & Stop set, you get only an additional 10Mil of revolution. Now, that IS actually plenty for me. 10Mil from a 100yd ZERO gives me something like 1300-1400yds. YEEE-AH! I’m not even shooting that distance anymore. Maybe get the chance ONCE in a Blue Moon anymore. But we ALL have different NEEDS & WANTS. I think we can all agree on that. Thanks for bearing with me guys. I love this place & truly do appreciate the members & accrued knowledge here. I genuinely like being a part of it.

[J.Baker]

Be sure to post a follow-up once you get some range time with it. Been happy with my Athlon Ares ETR 4.5-30x56, but the 56mm objective is larger than I prefer (typically I prefer 40-44mm just to keep the bulk and weight down). Been thinking about selling it, but need to figure out what I'd replace it with first.

[Dave Hoback]

The Ares ETR 3-18x50 might be your preferred Jim. If you’re happy with the ETR otherwise. That would have very likely been the choice for me, it’s got the 50mm objective and right at $1000 retail. However, even before I started looking, I set one of my parameters at no less than 20x for maximum magnification. Would really have liked 25x for this one eye I have(which ain’t all that good to boot!). If the Ares was 4-20 instead of 3-18, I would have chosen it most likely. Although, I do like traveling the road less traveled.

[Robinhood]

Thanks for the post David. If I were to be in the market for a scope in that range and had a $1300 budget... I would investigate the Toric UHD 30mm 4-20x50 FFP long range with Schott Glass. The have other options too. Quality out of its price class like the Cronus.


https://tractoptics.com/all-products/toric-uhd-30mm-4-20x50-ffp-mrad-prs-long-range-rifle-scope

[Dave Hoback]

I was looking at the Toric. But still $300 above my line. That I may have overlooked, except it’s 30mm. I wanted 34mm this time. Already had the new ring set for my mount, so was invested. But the Torics are really nice.

[Txhillbilly]

Thanks for the post David. If I were to be in the market for a scope in that range and had a $1300 budget... I would investigate the Toric UHD 30mm 4-20x50 FFP long range with Schott Glass. The have other options too. Quality out of its price class like the Cronus.


https://tractoptics.com/all-products/toric-uhd-30mm-4-20x50-ffp-mrad-prs-long-range-rifle-scope

I laugh when I see " Schott Glass" on budget scopes. Scope lenses are just like everything else, they are offered in many quality levels.
The glass in the Tract Toric isn't near the same quality glass that comes in a S&B or IOR scope. Kind of like comparing a Chevy to a Rolls Royce!

[Dave Hoback]

You can laugh, your right of course. But I’m not convinced they are lying. Toric lists the glass as coming from Schott. Be easy to find out by contacting Schott. It is a company with a phone number, mail address etc. Maybe I’ll contact them. So, what happens when Schott confirms they supply the glass to Toric? What would you be laughing for, at that point? ;)

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts? Do you think Schott has different quality levels? That’s not lost as far as I can find.

[Txhillbilly]

You can laugh, your right of course. But I’m not convinced they are lying. Toric lists the glass as coming from Schott. Be easy to find out by contacting Schott. It is a company with a phone number, mail address etc. Maybe I’ll contact them. So, what happens when Schott confirms they supply the glass to Toric? What would you be laughing for, at that point? ;)

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts? Do you think Schott has different quality levels? That’s not lost as far as I can find.

They probably do have Schott lenses in their scopes, but it isn't the same quality that come in Tier 1 scopes. They (Schott) don't just make one class of lenses, according to Schott's website, they have 120 different choices in optical glass.

https://www.schott.com/en-gb/products/optical-glass-p1000267

Dave, You just like to argue about everything. You like to use cheap priced stuff, not that there's anything wrong with that, but don't try to insist that it's the same or as good as stuff that cost more or is made with better quality stuff, because it isn't.
Yes, I'm a scope snob! I've spent close to 50 years shooting firearm's, and learned long ago that cheap optics don't work for me. Besides, I buy most of mine used, so the investment / loss ratio is quite low when it comes to me selling one when I want something else.

[Dave Hoback]

Wasn’t arguing:thumb:, but ok... since you asked. You’re referring to THIS:
https://i.ibb.co/k0NNvzZ/F57912-B4-73-AA-4831-8-F66-BA9-C52-B5252-E.png (https://ibb.co/GkzzNGm)
Yes, I saw that on Goog-minster as well. So, what they are referring to by “types” is different kinds of glass.. Automotive, Telescopic, Microscopic, Sporting Optics, etc. It, in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM, is referring to QUALITY of optics. They don’t have for instance, A. B. C. grades of Glass quality for rifle optics. And you can reach out to them & verify. Also, no where did I say it was “Just as good”. You see, that’s a bit of that YOU putting words in my mouth thing. My point has ALWAYS been, while the Top Tiers ARE better, are they TWO, THREE, FIVE Times better than their less expensive counterparts? And does every person need that? Ashame that SO many new shooters who can’t afford these TOP TUER optics THINK they do, because they read posts like yours making fun of what they can afford. Where is the diminishing return? Which, obviously it’s a personal thing.

But remember this comment, which was an ARGUMENT to Robin’s perfectly normal comment.
“I laugh when I see " Schott Glass" on budget scopes.” -Now, who was it that made that belittling comment?

See, you have a habit of coming down on & making fun of what others have or can afford. Whether you believe it or not, it’s exactly what you just did there. You have very nice scopes. We are glad for you. Why do you feel the need to PISS all over the things others have?

That is my only point. But I still admire your scope knowledge.:redface-new:

[Robinhood]

I laugh when I see " Schott Glass" on budget scopes. Scope lenses are just like everything else, they are offered in many quality levels.
The glass in the Tract Toric isn't near the same quality glass that comes in a S&B or IOR scope. Kind of like comparing a Chevy to a Rolls Royce!

Somehow you took a trip to the rolls Roys factory and lost the point of the discussion. The topic was never tier one. It consited of Chinese(Atlon Ares ETR) and Japanese(TS-20)glass, There was never a claim that all Schott glass was finished to tier one specs. My suggestion was for a 1300 dollar scope for a similar purpose. Nothing wrong with being a tier on glass guy. I don't like the cheap shit either. I look to one guy when putting optics in perspective. Rex Tibor. If he can make it work it cant be that bad. He praises an optic that doesnt come close to the Toric. Good enough for me.

I will say that Schott Glass coming out of the Schott factory has a much better source for raw materials and a better quality controll program and that their lowest tier glass is better than some makers highest tier. And BTW thanks for posting that link to Schott. I found this:

"Our high homogeneity glass has a crucial role to play in high-power laser applications and astronomy, while our i-Line glass offers high UV transmittance. Cameras and medical instruments also rely on our precision-molded glasses, while HT and HTUltra glasses allow outstanding transmittance for projector or high-end optical systems."

Notice the last part of the paragraph when it talks about HT glass.

This came from the link I provided. Notice the statement about HT glass:

"Ultra High Definition (UHD) optical system consisting of SCHOTT High Transmission (HT) glass for unparalleled clarity and light transmission. Like all TORIC rifle scopes, it was designed and engineered here in the U.S. and built in Japan by the world’s leading optical manufacturer."

Also, Coatings seem to make as much of a difference in optics as the small difference between Teir 1 and Tier 1.5 glas. :)

[Dave Hoback]

I agree Robin. I’ve followed Matthew(Rex) Tibor for 8 or 9 years now. His battle with cancer, watched many dozens of his videos(still watching them!) He is a brilliant man. He has an engineering degree. And he above all, honest. He is one of the most NON-Biased reviewers online. I’ve received MOST of my Optics knowledge from him. And some really good shooting tips. Now he ADMITS freely he himself is a Scope SCHNOBB! Loves his Schmidt & Benders & German Glass. But he was genuinely WOWED by the Athlon Ares ETR. In the video, he stresses how it tracked ABSOLUTELY 100% ACCURATE! And he even said it in fact DID track better than many Top Tier optics. Doesn’t mean they tracked bad, just that the ETR was so dead nuts on! He was also pretty wowed by the Arken ER5. He stated if optics such as this, with the quality, clarity & performance you get at the affordable prices, he likely would not have ever purchased the Top Tier optics. Now, I don’t like CHEAP CRAP either, as hard as some want to keep spouting. I like great performance at affordable prices. Getting the BEST for the LEAST! If product A has amazing performance, and costs $3,000 and product B has performance, fit & finish within 95% of product A, and costs $1,000.... Well, I would call product B the much better buy. That last 5% isn’t worth the extra $2K to me.. ok, see that.. TO ME! Absolutely it’s fine for people to buy the most expensive. Although MOST expensive doesn’t always mean the best. Unfortunately, some people are duped into thinking that.

One thing that really opened my eyes my learning about Metallurgy & Alloying Elements if two products are BOTH made of 7075-t6 Billet Aluminum & both products have outstanding machining, finish, etc. But brand X has the name & costs 3 times as much as brand Y with NO NAME. Very quickly, brand Y gets a reputation as being CHEAP, which is synonymous with JUNK! Well tell me, if BOTH brands use the SAME Metal and have high quality machining, how is it the more expensive product works better?

[Robinhood]

Ever wonder why he says nothing about the Cronus BTR? It outclasses the Ares by a good margin both mechanicaly and opticaly. It is a very different scope.

[Dave Hoback]

Another really good scope reviewer is Poorboy on Snipers hide(out). He’s another very honest, non-biased reviewer. I asked him his thought on BOTH the Athlon Cronus, & the US Optics TS-20, because he owned and had use with BOTH. I asked him #1 about clarity. And he told something funny. He said judging clarity between the two was difficult because these were the WORST two of all his scopes, LOL! Just found that funny. But he said both were very good, but he would choose the the Athlon Cronus. But then he told me this, because I had expressed that I was money conscious. He said if the difference in price was within $400, go for the Cronus. But if the the difference in price was like $700, he would not pay that much more for the Cronus & the TS-20 was the better deal in that scenario. That struck a nerve with me.

He also said tracking with his his TS-20 was very good.

[Robinhood]

Koskin/Ilya is one of the great ones over there too. For the best information without stupidity when you can't get the experience, The Hide is hard to beat.

Ilya has his own optics review/blog page.

http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=353

[Dave Hoback]

Some good info, but the Hide(out) is just as bad as AR15.com. There are more “I’m a more experienced’er & better’er shooter than YOU” THERE, than many forums. It just gets old. And like I mentioned in this thread, MANY of the children there(including the moderators) have no shame in making fun & flat out telling people they are WORTHLESS because of the gear they have. Not to mention the OK’d use of foul language. Every other thread it’s F this, F that, “F you & your worthless gear”.. I It’s disgusting there. Poor leadership. And I won’t even get into what Frank Galli is wrapped up in.