Who else suffers from AR15 MADNESS?

[Dave Hoback]

While I enjoy & am truly fond of Savage 10/110 rifles, I have been an AR NUT since 2005. I’ve never purchased a complete manufacturer’s AR. I’ve built, rather “assembled” every single one. And I’ve done a great many over the last 17 years. Several dozen anyway. I started doing my own BUILDS, in 2015. When I stopped buying complete lowers and switched to 80% Billet Lowers. I watched the 80% market since about 2010 when it first became public. But the processing/price had to catch up with the technology. I remember the first 80% Lowers being MilSpec Forged & costing $150+. That & the Jigs were in the $400-$500 range, Crazy! I was also interested in the Billet Lowers, but one, they were all made of 6061 Aluminum, & 2, cost $250 & up! But by 2015 companies were producing super high quality 80% Lowers of the PROPER 7075-t6 Billet! Also, the prices came down to what mere mortals like myself could afford. I started an arrangement with a company I felt had the best pieces & have used them for ALL of my builds since 2015. For a time I was planning to get an FFL & start manufacturing my own. But my health continues to deteriorate & really closed the lid on that one. Unfortunately, even though my son loves firearms & the the knowledge of shooting/ownership/maintenance, etc, I passed into him, he has absolutely NO interest in gunsmithing/building! And I’ve tried to teach him. I have researched the AR during these years & learned things I don’t see in most forums. Not even ARF.com. Anyway.. the AR15 is my hands down favorite rifle. Here is the last rifle I built and my personal best. This rifle is packed with super high end parts. All US made, in Billet steel or Aluminum. Nothing stamped & the ONLY cast steel, MilSpec part is the Safety/Selector. Because I honestly think they work very well. It’s a Stainless, 223Wylde, 1:8 twist barrel which has been Nitrided. In fact, every single part which deals with hot gasses/pressure from firing, is ALL Nitrided parts. I spent years researching & finding them all.

https://i.ibb.co/GVXjwVh/B81-F47-D7-B805-4433-A7-D5-CE76-CD372954.jpg (https://ibb.co/BgmRDg1)

https://i.ibb.co/qMJ7YB1/6649-B9-A1-25-BC-4-C54-87-A7-48-D44789-DEA2.jpg (https://ibb.co/BVnc2Ls)

Who else shares my madne.., I mean “passion” for the AR15. The greatest rifle ever made.

[Newtosavage]

Sorry, but not me. Can't stand the things to be honest and it's not because I'm some kind of traditionalist. I was issued one (replaced my Ruger Mini-14 for a service rifle) and hated it from the first day of training. The mini was so much simpler and more reliable - to me at least. I know those are fighting words among the AR enthusiasts, but that was my experience. I qualified expert with both rifles, but I never trusted my AR like I did my mini if the chit hit the fan. Likewise, my mini's are still my rifle of choice for wading into big sounders of feral pigs and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I get the interest in the component "plug and play" aspect of the AR. Same is true in archery with the guys who shoot target compound. They love to accessorize. Guess that's why I shoot a recurve. I love to keep things simple. :D

The Savage 10/110 platform is as "plug and play" as I need for my uses. But then, I'm just a hunter who enjoys shooting. Not the other way around.

[Full Chisel]

Don't own one yet, but I've shot a bunch and I like them. To me they fit like glove with the weight, balance etc. I'm fixing to go down the rabbit hole this year and get one, but it's goal is really to shoot service rifle competitions. Everybody has said to get one off the shelf. Any idea what a good price tag is without going nutso on the upgrades? Just a good trigger and accurate barrel, mainly. A2 stock and floated handguard.

[yobuck]

Well let me be the first to respond Dave.
I think thats about the ugliest Fn gun i have ever laid my very old eyes on.
And im not joking.
I wont argue the fact that they play a very important roll for military and law enforcement.
But i personally see no point to them at all for the civilian population.
But then i dont own any semi auto guns of any type either.
So im sure some would think that a bit odd as well.
I dont see any beauty in chasis type stocks on rifles either.
But i would also argue for the right of others to own whatever they choose.
So long as it dosent include a bump stock.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, I expect that from Liberal FUDDS. Luckily it’s a minority view. And THANK GOD our constitution is AGAINST your views! Oh.. it’s not an FN. FN had nothing to do with designing it and came to party late in the game. I know, I know.. Just get yourself a “TWO-BARREL SHOTGUN!” Right JoeBiden-buck?
Although I do agree with bumpy-stocks being pretty GAY! Although I was against Trump taking them away. As much good as he did, that was not part of it.

Newtosavage: I’m trying to think where you were “issued” both a Mini14 & AR15. Are you with the Sheriffs Dept? Corrections LEO? Only thing I can think of. Absolutely fair points. My good friend has a Mini that was just the opposite. Gave him problem after another.. mags, rounds sticking in chamber, so we had to ream it with a drill. (Worked after that.) They can barely hit the broad side of a barn. But he prefers his Mini to the AR as well. Many prefer the classic feel of a Monty Carlo style stock. (Not me!) My good friend also prefers ROTTING leather belts/holsters & WARPING/forever CREEPING wood stocks, to the synthetics which are far superior. My belt is 1.5” wide double marine nylon thin a stiffener between the 2-layers & a Cobra Aluminum buckle. I ONLY use Kydex holsters, 600 Denier moly soft case for my AR’s(in the pic), with more pockets than an old dudes “why YES I’m conceil carrying my 6-shooter” Vest! And the bad butt composite Pelican hard case for my Savage. I DESPISE leather & wood! Organic, ROTTING materials they are!

But that’s the great thing about all this. We can choose different things and hate the other stuff. And it’s OK if we don’t like the same things. (Oh, I actually like the Mini14 though) I don’t hate any firearms.

[wbm]

Mini14? Really?

[Txhillbilly]

Back in the early 80's, you had two choices for AR-15's - Colt or Olympic. Olympic's were pretty much junk, Colt's weren't much better. After owning one of those Colt AR's, I was turned off of the platform for many years.
Around 2000, I got interested in AR's again after buying a Rock River 20" Varminter, and to this day, it's still one of my favorite gun's. I've built a bunch of AR's since, in a bunch of different cartridges - 223, 277 Wolverine, 6.5x6.8, 6.8 SPC II, 458 SOCOM. I also have a DPMS LR-260H that is a damn good rifle, and a hog & deer killing machine

I've never cared for any of the M4 style AR's. I'm just not a 16" Carbine type of guy, I run 18" and 20" barrels on all of my AR's with either a mid gas or rifle length gas systems.

[Dave Hoback]

TX, I actually prefer 18”. Gives almost equal velocity to 20” but cuts a good bit of weight with the 2”. My first AR was actually a 20” HBAR. Most accurate AR I’ve ever had. It’s incredible, the market over the years. In the beginning of the “build culture” years... which WAS 2004-2005, AFTER the Billary Clinton AWB expired, we only had a few places to buy parts. NOTHING like today, with MANY HUNDREDS of places selling AR parts! More limited choices back then, but we didn’t have to worry about CHINESIUM parts. China didn't catch on until about 2008, or 09 maybe. NOW, you better know exactly what you are getting before purchasing. I did this one in 16” because this specific barrel wasn’t available in 18”. And in a world of 6061 hand-guards, I found a particular machine shop that makes the Hybrid Hand-guard I have in 7075-t6. I’d take my built AR over a $2600 Knights Armament!

What I learned so many years ago, is NO ONE MANUFACTURER can have ALL the best parts! They might have the best barrel, or the best machined upper. Or even a super high quality BCG. But SOMETHING is gonna suffer. From my experience, it’s mostly the small parts. Here’s a little piece of info: Doesn’t matter the manufacturer... from the the Top Tier LMT, KAC, Wilson.. to the much lower cost Primary Arms or Anderson AR’s, they ALL use the SAME EXACT mass produced MilSpec parts in their Lower Parts Kits. The pins, springs, FCG, Mag release, etc. These kits are ALL made by the SAME few Foundry Forges in the US. A Rock River Arms LPK for $83, and an Anderson LLK for $44 are made up of IDENTICAL parts... made in the Same Places! This is one of the ugly little secrets in the AR world.

[PhilC]

Sorry, but not me. Can't stand the things to be honest and it's not because I'm some kind of traditionalist.
Me neither, BUT, to each their own. Thank God we still have the right to choose what makes us happy.

[yobuck]

Well, I expect that from Liberal FUDDS. Luckily it’s a minority view. And THANK GOD our constitution is AGAINST your views! Oh.. it’s not an FN. FN had nothing to do with designing it and came to party late in the game. I know, I know.. Just get yourself a “TWO-BARREL SHOTGUN!” Right JoeBiden-buck?
Although I do agree with bumpy-stocks being pretty GAY! Although I was against Trump taking them away. As much good as he did, that was not part of it.

Newtosavage: I’m trying to think where you were “issued” both a Mini14 & AR15. Are you with the Sheriffs Dept? Corrections LEO? Only thing I can think of. Absolutely fair points. My good friend has a Mini that was just the opposite. Gave him problem after another.. mags, rounds sticking in chamber, so we had to ream it with a drill. (Worked after that.) They can barely hit the broad side of a barn. But he prefers his Mini to the AR as well. Many prefer the classic feel of a Monty Carlo style stock. (Not me!) My good friend also prefers ROTTING leather belts/holsters & WARPING/forever CREEPING wood stocks, to the synthetics which are far superior. My belt is 1.5” wide double marine nylon thin a stiffener between the 2-layers & a Cobra Aluminum buckle. I ONLY use Kydex holsters, 600 Denier moly soft case for my AR’s(in the pic), with more pockets than an old dudes “why YES I’m conceil carrying my 6-shooter” Vest! And the bad butt composite Pelican hard case for my Savage. I DESPISE leather & wood! Organic, ROTTING materials they are!

But that’s the great thing about all this. We can can choose different things and hate the other stuff. And it’s OK if we don’t like the same things. (Oh, I actually like the Mini14 though) I don’t hate any firearms.
You supply me with so much ammo to send back at you Dave that its hard for me to pick a spot to aim at. lol
Ive been called a Fudd by others who didnt know me either.
They were AR guys as well, and their reason was that PA dosent permit ARs for hunting, and its due to Fudds like me that they dont.
Never mind that i havent even lived in that state for about 22 years, its still my fault. lol
As for gun rights, ive been a lifetime member of the NRA since 1972 which is before you were born Dave.
And ive paid for both my sons and one of my grandsons to become life members as well.
So i can actually say that i do stand for the rights of people like you to own the type guns you prefer.
Are you an NRA member Dave? And if not id like to hear why not.
As for a self defense weapon, especially in a close encounter situation, yes i would pick a shotgun, but preferably a pump with the plug removed.
Just the sound of cycling a round into the chamber of a pump shotgun will as a rule cause one to think of a quick way out rather than in.
But that could just be my Fudd mentality talking also.
But if you will take the time to notice, you will find many police cars armed with shotguns as well.
And from some of the dash cam videos ive watched, more cops should be using them as their weapon of choice.

I lived in Bucks County PA for well over 60 years before moving to Florida full time.
About 20 of those years were in the upper part of the county not far from Quakertown.
Near lake Nockamixon is a game lands for public hunting. In the 70s they built a very nice public range on a part of that land.
It was well back from the nearest paved road in a very wooded area.
After a few years it was permanently closed. The reason given was noise complaints from nearby residents.
While that might have been a factor, the real reason were the idiots with ARs coming out there from places like Philly where no shooting is permitted.
They couldnt keep the target frames erected that they werent mowed down again in short order.
Propane cylinders and the like littered the place after providing the desired entertainment.
It has to either blow up or fall over in order for a large percentage of these guys to be happy.
I cant say that im even sorry if ive offended anybody over what ive said, because the fact is its all true.
My 50 year old son who lives under the same roof as i do along with his wife and 2 college kids, has an AR and about 1000 rounds right here in this house.
Just in case of an insurrection. Thats ok by me if thats his choice, even though i believe it to be a bit outdated thinking.
And by the way, i do hope they never approve of ARs for hunting in PA.
Will they ultimatly do it? Probably, just like they did on the Sunday hunting.
Will it bring more hunters back into the mix?
Probably not, and it will only satisfy the discontents for a brief period.

What they really need to do in order to accomplish that, is have all the bars offer free wings and beer on Friday and Saturday evenings.
Then a one day brown goes down with ARs Sunday hunt, with the promise that they all go home afterwards.
At least whats left of them. lol

[Dave Hoback]

Amen to that! I’ll just say, most people who “hate” the AR, haven’t used one. Most people who prefer an AK over an AR, have likely never really shot beyond 100yds or less. And those who think AR’s are prone to jamming, inaccurate, or are fragile & break with eased, have likely never even held one much less shot one, & really have little to NO knowledge OF the platform, PERIOD! BTW: I’m not saying anyone who responded is in these categories. Rather what I’ve seen through the years.

I do think it’s a strange concept HATING any firearm. It reminds me of SOME of the little boys over on Snipershide(out), who have utter DISDAIN for Savages. Now, I am not fond of bull pup designs like the Steyr AUG, IWI Tavor or Enfield L85, but I certainly don’t HATE them. While I’m not attracted to the looks, & don’t like how they feel in hand, I wouldn’t hesitate to use one. Hell, I don’t even hate the Hi-Points... not even the newer one one with the RIDICULOUS name taken from GHETTO Hood inner cities called the “Yeet Cannon” for Heaven’s sake! And YES! That is the REAL name of this thing! Of course, while I most assuredly will continue to poke fun & laugh at the jokes & memes at Hi-Points expense, I don’t have any personal vendetta against them as some do. I will even acknowledge the Hi-Points are pretty darn reliable & again, I wouldn’t hesitate to use one in a time of need.

[Dave Hoback]

I’ve lived in east Pa all my life. I know Bucks county & Lake Nockamixon very well. While this may have happened ONCE which is where you are framing your reference from, people from Philadelphia shooting their ARs in the woods getting the park close, was NEVER a thing. It’s part of your embellishing imagination buck. It never happened! Nockamixon is not some VAST wilderness where “them Dagnabid Phily hoodlems with their Assaulty rifles” can just shoot at will recklessly. It’s interlaced HEAVILY with suburb/urban environment and is well patrolled by both Sheriffs Dept. & armed Fish/Game wardens. What you are talking about NEVER HAPPENED! Again, other than perhaps a single incident which you read about in one of the papers there. In fact, I’m sure I could search online, through the Lehigh Valley Newspaper, the Bucks County Courier Press or Quakertown News Agency or perhaps the Free Press, and find a SINGLE INCIDENT. Maybe even two. And I give YOU a lot of Ammo? Hmm. If you say so.

Oh.. and Propane Cylinders DON’T blow up when shot, like the movies! I’ve tried as a younger, dumber kid! Not at Lake Nockamixon btw. The Arizona, for the four years I live there. Where we had DESIGNATED LEGAL spots to shoot whatever. On contaminated land from the activity around the Missile Silos. Used to be able to go into one while I lived there. Pretty cool.

[yobuck]

I’ve lived in east Pa all my life. I know Bucks county & Lake Nockamixon very well. While this may have happened ONCE which is where you are framing your reference from, people from Philadelphia shooting their ARs in the woods getting the park close, was NEVER a thing. It’s part of your embellishing imagination buck. It never happened! Nockamixon is not some VAST wilderness where “them Dagnabid Phily hoodlems with their Assaulty rifles” can just shoot at will recklessly. It’s interlaced HEAVILY with suburb/urban environment and is well patrolled by both Sheriffs Dept. & armed Fish/Game wardens. What you are talking about NEVER HAPPENED! Again, other than perhaps a single incident which you read about in one of the papers there. In fact, I’m sure I could search online, through the Lehigh Valley Newspaper, the Bucks County Courier Press or Quakertown News Agency or perhaps the Free Press, and find a SINGLE INCIDENT. Maybe even two. And I give YOU a lot of Ammo? Hmm. If you say so.

Oh.. and Propane Cylinders DON’T blow up when shot, like the movies! I’ve tried as a younger, dumber kid! Not at Lake Nockamixon btw. The Arizona, for the four years I live there. Where we had DESIGNATED LEGAL spots to shoot whatever. On contaminated land from the activity around the Missile Silos. Used to be able to go into one while I lived there. Pretty cool.
You obviously dont know Bucks county as well as you think you do Dave.
Reread what i said.
I said the range was near the park, never said it was in the park.
Also didnt say the park was closed as a result of shooting.
It was located within the confines of a game lands open for hunting (near the park).
As far as i know the game lands still exists, they simply closed the public range while i was still living within about 5 miles of it.
For your information the bulk of the state park including most of the lake lies on the East side of Rt 563.
The game lands is on the North side of 563 toward Appelbachsville.
You should also know that the discharge of any center fire rifle has been illegal anywhere in Buck county for several decades at this point.
Ditto with Lehigh county to the north.
All deer hunting is shotgun only, and there are many areas where rifles could be used safely.
Therefore public ranges in those areas are very important to the high population of gun owners who live there.
At this point ( to my knowledge ), there is a total of 3 ranges in Bucks Co.
Two of them are gun clubs requiring a membership for using the range.
They are the Langhorne Rod and gun club, and the Doylestown Fish and game club.
The third is a privately owned pay to shoot operation located south of Doylestown not far from Furlong.
Also for your information i dont hate any firearms, like you and most others i simply have preferences.
And they dont include ugly guns with lots of firepower.

[Dave Hoback]

Yes Buck, I’m aware of all that. I basically SAID those things, and you are now twisting what you said to fit that, repeating me....which is a habit of yours.

So are you referring to one of the Public GAME LANDS Ranges the the State provides hunters, & permitted($35/year range pass)? You are referring to SGL 157, aren’t you? The closing had NOTHING to do with “Guys from Philly & their AR’s” buck! It was due to safety concerns.. the backstop & sideburms did not meet NRA requirements. When work started, the lead content was found to be incredibly high, given that housing was close buy. It has been a battle to reopen since 2009.

But Pa. has a bunch of these ranges. There are others not to far from Nockamixon.
https://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/StateGameLands/StateGameLandsRanges/Pages/default.aspx

So what was that about what I don’t know? Would you like me to post the articles from Pa.Gov about SGO 157? So again.. shooting ARs had NOTHING to do with it. You pulled it out of your overactive, imagination. With “them DURN kids shoot’n those ar-47 Asalty, mass destruction rifles!” “30 Rounds, Magazine-Clip..., in half a second!”

[Robinhood]

Who else suffers from ar 15 madness? about 3 million ARF.com members. Great place for AR discussions.

[Dave Hoback]

Can’t stand that place. New members “Must Bow & worship Pepé Le Pew(aka Mark Larue), upon entering the Forum.” Its among the worst “Get out of our sandbox” forums.

And, I DO believe this is the “Non Savage Firearms Discussion” Forum. WAIT! Let me just check...

https://i.ibb.co/4NPKNZz/731-ABA72-D83-B-4-EB5-8-C71-EC6-C1001148-A.png (https://ibb.co/kcQ5cgj)

I was RIGHT, LOL! :eagerness: Just kidding ya.

[Dave Hoback]

Look, I honestly don’t care that some of you don’t like the AR. Our choices of firearms have no bearing on each other whatsoever. What I find odd, are those who have a very clear Axe to grind AGAINST the AR. And coming from guys who like Savages no less. You sound EXACTLY like that half twit on SniperHide(away camp), who makes threads about how he hates Savages & the people who shoot them are sub human, yadda, yadda. Same thing. It’s very strange.

Sort of like Jews who were identified, number & labeled with papers and a mark on their sleeve that they HAD to carry under penalty of death! But NOW, all these years later, Israel is making Vaccines MANDATORY, making their citizens carry a Vaccine PASSPORT! How quickly they’ve forgotten this was done to them.

Not liking certain weapons is one thing. HATING a TOOL, and especially those who use it, is irrational. And it’s ONLY DEMONcrats & certain members in the older crowd who share this HATE. Certain Older hunters at that! Guys that LIKE guns as long as they only go BANG, every 30 seconds or so, LOL!

[yobuck]

Yes Buck, I’m aware of all that. I basically SAID those things, and you are now twisting what you said to fit that, repeating me....which is a habit of yours.

So are you referring to one of the Public GAME LANDS Ranges the the State provides hunters, & permitted($35/year range pass)? You are referring to SGL 157, aren’t you? The closing had NOTHING to do with “Guys from Philly & their AR’s” buck! It was due to safety concerns.. the backstop & sideburms did not meet NRA requirements. When work started, the lead content was found to be incredibly high, given that housing was close buy. It has been a battle to reopen since 2009.

But Pa. has a bunch of these ranges. There are others not to far from Nockamixon.
https://www.pgc.pa.gov/HuntTrap/StateGameLands/StateGameLandsRanges/Pages/default.aspx

So what was that about what I don’t know? Would you like me to post the articles from Pa.Gov about SGO 157? So again.. shooting ARs had NOTHING to do with it. You pulled it out of your overactive, imagination. With “them DURN kids shoot’n those ar-47 Asalty, mass destruction rifles!” “30 Rounds, Magazine-Clip..., in half a second!”
You can post all the Gubmint printed articles you want Dave.
Most of us are very aware of how much faith can be placed in those.
You might not have even been born when that range was created, and it only lasted till the word got out that it was there.
The dirt lane leading back into the woods where it was located was probably a half mile long.
They had cleared an area for it to be built.
There was no way a round could leave that place unless it was shot up into the air.
I mean you knew what was coming after a few years by the deteriorating conditions of the place.
Talk with other shooters there and they would say when these guys show up we just leave.
There was no discipline or range rules followed by them, and YES, safety became an issue, but it wasent for the residents in the area.
Got to any of those public ranges you mentioned where there is no official supervision and see what you find.
Talk with a few of the regular shooters there, see what they have to say.
Its a problem everywhere, and you are no doubt aware of it.
Which is why your attempting to shout me down.
You can shout all you like Dave but it dosent change any facts.

As for the Holocaust, none of the Jews ive had the pleasure of knowing have forgotten anything.
They have the same issues over there as we have here, and other places do as well.

[Stumpkiller]

I had one of the Colt made AR-15’s in the late 70’s. Shot well and was reliable . . . but it never really captured my heart. Too much hunting afterwards for brass.

I have had a single-shot .223 since about the time I sold the AR. That does hold my fancy. Wonderful anti-predator choice around the chicken coops and sheep pastures.

One good shot - as they say. ;-)

Nothing against semi-auto rifles. Just not my cup of meat. I own a couple such pistols (that I don’t reload for) and EDC one.

[Robinhood]

I like AR 15's I like 10's better.
Daniel Defense is my favorite builder.
I like the new slim handgauards.
I like to tune them and improve the creep on factory triggers.
The AR's have become a money pit.
Build an AK. Drop it in the water and mud. Leave it out in the snow. Pew Pew