A serious question to high end scope users.

[Dave Hoback]

7mm Sherman Short, eh? That’s kinda cool: I don’t have any knowledge of that one. Based on the SAUM I’m guessing.

[454308]

Look at who the customer is as well. If they sell to the military per contract they cannot sell to consumers for less than the mil. Leupold MK6 3-18 is a great example. To add illumination when they came out was an asinine price somewere around $1200 extra if I remember correctly.

[yobuck]

Look at who the customer is as well. If they sell to the military per contract they cannot sell to consumers for less than the mil. Leupold MK6 3-18 is a great example. To add illumination when they came out was an asinine price somewere around $1200 extra if I remember correctly.
The actual cost was probably about $2.93, the rest was needed to spread around in order to secure the contract.
They need to remember who got them to where they are, and leave the big contracts to failures like Premier Reticles.

[pdshooter2]

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE SPEND MONEY ON 'enough"scope
6 BRA Wins Tack Driver II Match

The winning combination this year was a 6 BRA (6mmBR Ackley Improved) shot by Bart Sauter. Below are the particulars on Bart’s winning rifle and load information. Watch the following video to learn more about Bart’s very accurate rifle.


Action – BAT DS, Melonited
Picatinny Rail – BAT +20 MOA
Stock – Scarbrough HV
Stock Paint — Brett Childress (Bc’z)
Scope – Valdada 10-60x56mm 40mm tube
Rings – Valdada Low Rings
Stocker – Billy Stevens
Gunsmith – Dean Stroud
Trigger – Jewell
Barrel Tuner – Ezell


Barrel – Lederer 1:8″-Twist, 28″
Barrel Bore Diameter – 0.237″
Neck – .272″ NO TURN
Bullets – 103gr Bart’s Hammers
Case – Lapua 6mmBR parent
Primers – CCI BR4 sm rifle
Powder – Hodgdon H4895
Seating Pressure – 22 to 25 lbs. on gauge
Bullet Seating Depth – .009″ into the rifling from first touch.

[pdshooter2]

that scope is $4000
i own its little brother a 5-40x 40mm tube
read the whole article on accurate shooter.
this match is shot at 300 METERS
and while others complained about trouble seeing 6mm holes at
that distance, bart did not
he happens to be a great shooter.....
yes sometimes there is a reason for a high dollar scope

[Dave Hoback]

We like pointing out what the pros use. Well, of course they use the Top Tier products. You don’t see professional Golfers using MacGregor or Wilson clubs. No..., they use Calloway or TaylorMade. And why not? They are sponsored. Don’t pay for them anyway. I used a set of Wilson clubs years ago. And I could easily drive over 400yds. But my skillset was only fun level play. Was it my clubs making the difference in play? I don’t think so. I also played Tennisas a young teenager & during Highschool. I had an incredibly powerful serve, my record reaching 142mph.While I used expensive, top of the line racquets, I could just as easy serve my normal 130’smph+ range with a cheap, $30 racquet.

Now, I doubt any one of us would NOT consider Carlos Hathcock to have been a very gifted Marksman. And he accomplished his impressive doings using an Unertl 8x scope. A scope that is bested now by an inexpensive SWFA SS 10x scope. And before anyone goes on about Unertl glass, spare me, please. I’ve had dealings with these now, almost antique scopes, and I was rather unimpressed; in-fact I’ve used $100 CHINESIUM scopes with better clarity. It’s just modern technology at work. I know there are some who wish to hold on to Hester-year... but the technology from decades ago easily outmatched by Modern Tech. Just is regardless of what some think.

[Stumpkiller]

Simo Häyhä used open iron sights. ;-)

Sometimes it's the Indian and not the arrow.

[pdshooter2]

stay in the past and ignore the facts
when the navy seals went to a 300 win mag accuracy international sniper rifle they also went to a 5.5-22 NIGHTFORCE/
AMERICAN SNIIPER cris kyle had two favorites: a 300 win mag and an 8-32x nightforce.
the army just pick the night force ATACR scope for their current sniper rifle( a variation of the mk 13..the did not list the 25 or the 35x)
while there is a professional shooting league...for benchrest it has gone almost nowhere
bart is not a paid professional...he owns a bullet making business and his partner makes rifles....but they buy most of their stuff. you do not see br shooters walking around in sponsor shirts.
a lot of talk little current facts.

We like pointing out what the pros use. Well, of course they use the Top Tier products. You don’t see professional Golfers using MacGregor or Wilson clubs. No..., they use Calloway or TaylorMade. And why not? They are sponsored. Don’t pay for them anyway. I used a set of Wilson clubs years ago. And I could easily drive over 400yds. But my skillset was only fun level play. Was it my clubs making the difference in play? I don’t think so. I also played Tennisas a young teenager & during Highschool. I had an incredibly powerful serve, my record reaching 142mph.While I used expensive, top of the line racquets, I could just as easy serve my normal 130’smph+ range with a cheap, $30 racquet.

Now, I doubt any one of us would NOT consider Carlos Hathcock to have been a very gifted Marksman. And he accomplished his impressive doings using an Unertl 8x scope. A scope that is bested now by an inexpensive SWFA SS 10x scope. And before anyone goes on about Unertl glass, spare me, please. I’ve had dealings with these now, almost antique scopes, and I was rather unimpressed; in-fact I’ve used $100 CHINESIUM scopes with better clarity. It’s just modern technology at work. I know there are some who wish to hold on to Hester-year... but the technology from decades ago easily outmatched by Modern Tech. Just is regardless of what some think.

[pdshooter2]

Simo Häyhä used open iron sights. ;-)

Sometimes it's the Indian and not the arrow.


again get your facts straight...like the iron sights on the submachine pistol he used to take out a machine gun crew from behind.
they counted those kills in his "sniper kills"

[Dave Hoback]

The only FACT I stated in my post, you actually agreed with in your first line. Which was the only thing I was making the point of. I suggest you work on your reading comprehension before quoting people. ‘K chief?

[jkv45]

again get your facts straight...like the iron sights on the submachine pistol he used to take out a machine gun crew from behind.
they counted those kills in his "sniper kills"
Multiple sources say that he preferred iron sights for his sniper work as well.

[pdshooter2]

sorry just not so.
most of the top end scopes are built on demand by competition shooters.
are any in closets by wantabes' yes....but not MOST
just justifying your spending..tho it is not what makes the world go around at the top end of shooting.
you are entitiled to shoot what you want, but because you do does not mean the rest of the world does.



There’s a ton of money running around out there right now. A lot of it is that my buddy got the $3500 March so I need the $4500 Tangent Theta. Most of them stay in the closet. I guess since there’s no ammo to buy a guy has to spend it on something.

I don’t pay that much for cars. [emoji1]

[Stumpkiller]

again get your facts straight...like the iron sights on the submachine pistol he used to take out a machine gun crew from behind.
they counted those kills in his "sniper kills"

What fact did I miss? I never mentioned his distances or weapon choices. He was more a hunter than a shooter.

Last I knew “sniper” referred to a concealed individual. Distance is just one form of concealment.

I do two kinds of shooting: hunting and practice. I choose to pack light and get close. My Leupold VX-5HD 3-15X 44mm weighs 19 oz. I appreciate the skill and effort in the 2-Mile Challenge but would not like to walk very far in bulky clothing using their equipment. “Practical” means something very different to me than crew-supported heavy weapons.

[pdshooter2]

i guess you missed the topic of the thread

" A serious question to high end scope users"



What fact did I miss? I never mentioned his distances or weapon choices. He was more a hunter than a shooter.

Last I knew “sniper” referred to a concealed individual. Distance is just one form of concealment.

I do two kinds of shooting: hunting and practice. I choose to pack light and get close. My Leupold VX-5HD 3-15X 44mm weighs 19 oz. I appreciate the skill and effort in the 2-Mile Challenge but would not like to walk very far in bulky clothing using their equipment. “Practical” means something very different to me than crew-supported heavy weapons.

[Dave Hoback]

???:confused:

[yobuck]

Certainly the modern day optics are superior to those we used 40 years ago, but how many of us need or even benefit from that?
I have a Nightforce scope on a large 338 that dosent even get used unless the distance is 1000 yds or more.
Therefore it rarely gets used except for killing an occasional rock.
It replaced a 6x24 Bausch & Lomb Balvar target scope that was built in the 70s, and you know what? I wish i had the money and my old scope back,
because (for my use ) the old scope worked just as well. Note i didnt say better, i simply said it worked.
Lets not forget also that the modern day 1000 yd ( heavy gun ) benchrest 10 shot record is only about 1” smaller than the one set in 1986 with a Unertl scope. Tell me what im missing here?
In the early 50s as a teenager, i watched thru a spotter as a young Arthur Cook shot a 4 position smallbore perfect 400 score while using a Unertl scope.
Could he have possibly improved on perfect?
As for Chris Kyle, yes his favorites were his Nightforce and his 300 Win Mag.
But the gun was zeroed for 400 yards and he never touched the dial on the scope.
His shots rarely exceeded that distance, and he simply held up or down on the torso as required.
Could he have done that with a 308 and a differant scope? You can bet he could have.
His longest shot of about 2000 yds was with a 338 Lapua, and he readily admitted that it was a BS luck shot.
And yes quite a few of the better shooters have won their scopes at the matches.
The Webers for example who i know well have probably won a half dozen of them at Williamsport.
Others have been shooting there a long while and never have.
As hunters, the Webers do very poorly, and theres a reason for that also.
A winner will usually find a way to be a winner, and those who arent wont be regardless of the scope they use.
Buy whatever you like and can afford, but dont be expecting it will change much as for your ability.

[pdshooter2]

you are entitled to your OPINION, but it is based on a sample size of ONE.
i have over TEN high end scopes and actually shoot with them, unlike yo that admit you seldom use your ONE.
the tack driver match was won with a $4000 scope because the user could see his target while lower cost scopes could not.
there are fewer and fewer 36x scopes shot in short range benchrest as people have moved to modern costlier scopes with more power.
15 -55x on lite and heavy, when weight is an issue 12-42 is common, then fixed 42,45 50. fewer and fewer fixed power luepolds that are only $1000. in long range it is mainly 15-55x nf or a higher priced march or valdada.
just the facts
2021 ibs 1000 yard nationals heavy gun
5 nightforce
3 march
6 vortex
2 kahles
ONE luepold

[yobuck]

you are entitled to your OPINION, but it is based on a sample size of ONE.
i have over TEN high end scopes and actually shoot with them, unlike yo that admit you seldom use your ONE.
the tack driver match was won with a $4000 scope because the user could see his target while lower cost scopes could not.
there are fewer and fewer 36x scopes shot in short range benchrest as people have moved to modern costlier scopes with more power.
15 -55x on lite and heavy, when weight is an issue 12-42 is common, then fixed 42,45 50. fewer and fewer fixed power luepolds that are only $1000. in long range it is mainly 15-55x nf or a higher priced march or valdada.
just the facts
Well facts are facts, and im not argueing about those facts.
But you havent answered my question.
Why hasent the shooting improved in relationship with the modern scopes being used?
And there is no argument about the fact that it hasent, and ive cited a few examples.
John Voniada held the heavy gun record for about 14 years with a group only about 1/4” smaller than the current one.
And his scope was a fixed 24x Leupold on a gun he built himself on a Rem 721 action.
You can buy your way only so far, but you cant buy your way all the way.
You still need a good fastball to make it.

[Dave Hoback]

What range are you talking about? 1000? A Mile? ELR..2 miles?? If it’s the latter, of COURSE really high power zoom is required. Not to mention a huge magnum, purpose built rig, and a good helping of LUCK!

If it’s a mile... certainly don’t need 36x. And hell, people have been shooting 1000yds with 10x for a long time. Not enough for me with my one eye... and heavy corrected at that. But just need a bit more for it.

[wbm]

Carlos Hathcock....accomplished his impressive doings using an Unertl 8x scope.

And Redfields but he said they stayed in the shop most of the time.