How Good, Really, Is the .270 Win?

[GaCop]

Maybe he should have had a quick comeback then. ;)

I didn't grow up reading Keith or O'Connor. I grew up mostly interested in bowhunting and read a lot of Fred Bear, Pearson and Hill. My dad was a .270 fan, because he was into the "latest and greatest" and when he was coming of age the .270 was then what the 6.5 CM is today. It's understandable. Years from now, 6.5 CM fans will be telling their grandsons about what a great cartridge it is, and arguing with anyone who disagrees.

I'm still of the mind that the 7x57 Mauser was the beginning and end to the everyman's hunting needs. Pity Americans were so offended by metric calibers at the time. +1 for 7X57!:thumb::thumb:

[PhilC]

I’m betting your Savage 110 is what I had back in the 80’s as well. That 7mm Rem Mag was amazingly accurate with 175gr Winchester silver box, and Federal red box ammo.


Hawk
Mine couldn't be any plainer, featureless, non-checkered birch stock, plastic butt cap, and with scope it weighs 8.5lbs. Your accuracy assessment matches mine, my favorite deer load was 150gr BTs stepping up to 160gr PTs for elk. I'll never sell it.

[Whynot]

Pity Americans were so offended by metric calibers at the time.

Two types of countries in the world..... those that use the metric system.... and those that have been to the moon.

[Newtosavage]

Two types of countries in the world..... those that use the metric system.... and those that have been to the moon.

LOL however you need to justify it.

Keeping it forum related - the 7x57 was so far ahead of it's time that even today it stacks up well against hundreds of cartridges that have been designed since. Loaded in a modern rifle to standard pressures, there's really nothing the .270 can do that the 7x57 can't.

I always look at the '06 and think, now there's another example of Americans taking a great idea and thinking "we'll make it even bigger so it must be better" and ending up with an overgrown 7x57. LOL Yes, I know the .30 bore was used because of all the then-existing .30 cal military rifles on hand, but for pete's sake...

Fact is that when the greatest rifle designer of all time created a round, it wasn't an '06 or .270.

[wbm]

Yeah. And there are three kinds of people too...those that are good at math and those who are not.

[Whynot]

LOL however you need to justify it.

Keeping it forum related - the 7x57 was so far ahead of it's time that even today it stacks up well against hundreds of cartridges that have been designed since. Loaded in a modern rifle to standard pressures, there's really nothing the .270 can do that the 7x57 can't.

I always look at the '06 and think, now there's another example of Americans taking a great idea and thinking "we'll make it even bigger so it must be better" and ending up with an overgrown 7x57. LOL Yes, I know the .30 bore was used because of all the then-existing .30 cal military rifles on hand, but for pete's sake...

Fact is that when the greatest rifle designer of all time created a round, it wasn't an '06 or .270.

The 7x57 is still a great cartridge (one of my favorites- 6mm Rem- is based on it)... But it is just another cartridge, and wasn't as ahead of its time as you are saying. And it wasn't only the Americans going with bigger bullets. Cartridges like the 7.5x55 swiss (.308) - 7.6x54 Russian (.308)- 7.65 Belgian (.312) are all older than the 30-06.... and are also all older than the 7x57. I think that the 7.5x55 Swiss looks every bit as modern as the 7x57 and was released years ahead of it. Lots of countries went with the 30 caliber- they just called it 7.6 and we called it 30.

And what does John Moses Browning and his 50 BMG have to do with this topic?

[wbm]

And what does John Moses Browning and his 50 BMG have to do with this topic?

Well if I do my part, shoot the right kind of pills, set the correct thou off the lands, my 270 can do all Ma Deuce can do...all day long!

[ttpoz]

I'm a 270 guy. I've got two of them. I've shot coyotes, mulies, black bear, elk, moose, and probably other species that I'm failing to remember with the 270. It works very well. Longest shot was about (I'm not gonna dig into my notes to be exact) 420 yards on a cow elk. Most shots have been between 60 and 200 yards. I've played with bullets from 110 gr Sierras to 180 gr Woodleighs. Most of my hunting has been with 110 and 130 gr TTSX's.

Now, having said that I'm a 270 fan, I don't think a 270 is really any better than a 260 Rem, 6.5 CM, 7x57, 7mm-08, 280 Rem, 308, 30-06, or a good many others. We can split hairs and find minor strengths and weaknesses for each of the named cartridges. If I was to do it all over again I would probably choose a 7mm-08 as my "go to" for the last 50 years of big game hunting.

Shot placement trumps cartridge. Bullet construction trumps cartridge. Comfort/fit of rifle trumps cartridge. One man's opinion. : )

[charlie b]

You guys drive me to do more research than most forums I visit. A little off topic. Just enough to show that nothing we have is really new.

Early smokeless cartridges:
1884 Smokeless powder invented

1886 8mm Lebel (converted to smokeless)
1888 Patrone 88 (M/88, 7.9x57)
1889 7.65x53 Mauser
1892 .303 Brit (smokeless version)
1892 7x57 Mauser
1892 .30-40Krag
1894 6.5x55 Swedish
1895 .30-30Win
1895 6mm Lee
1889 7.5x55 Swiss
1903 8x57 Mauser (actual 7.92x57, based on the M/88, not the Mauser and was not developed by Mauser)
1903 .30-03 Springfield
1906 .30-06 Springfield

.30 (7.6) was considered a very "small' bore rifle of the day. The US Navy had the 6mm Lee for a very short time. The 7x57 did have a lot of influence after the Spanish-American war due to the ballistics and rifle it was fired from. It resulted in changes to the loading of the .303Brit as well as the US looking for a replacement of the Krag, both rifle and cartridge. By WWI most countries had adopted a cartridge between 7.6 and 8mm with spitzer bullets between 150 and 200gn. Interesting that even the Germans did not adopt the 7x57, instead moving to the 8x57, probably because the German government developed the 8x57.

I also looked for history of the .30-06 and could not fine specific reference to a 'parent' from any of the Mauser cartridges. The Springfield rifle action was developed from the various Mauser rifles of the day. First look, the rim dia of the 7x57 is .473 and the 8x57 is .470 (and has a slightly thicker rim). The .30-06 has the .473 rim but also has the thicker rim of the 8x57. So, it kinda looks like the US did the same thing here and took the 'good parts' of several designs.

One other note about the 6mm. The Navy did a report on it. Responses remind me of the early documents on the 5.56.

"The report also acknowledged that the 6 mm round had two principal disadvantages: first, as a small-caliber round, the 6 mm bullet would not sufficiently wound an enemy to put him out of action, and second, the "shock" or stopping power of the smaller bullet would not "stop the onset of excited men at short range".[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_Lee_Navy#cite_note-SAM2-4) In answer to these objections, the report gave three responses: first, "the battle of the future will be fought at long range, and men will not live to come to close quarters with an enemy who stands his ground"; second, "99 percent of wounded enemy soldiers were unlikely to investigate the severity of their wound, but simply retire to the rear", and last, "the explosive effect of a small-caliber, high-velocity bullet against the human body—the bullet tumbles or fragments to produce devastating wounds against bone or fluid-filled organs—would be more incapacitating at all ranges than wounds made by a slow-moving bullet of large caliber".[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_Lee_Navy#cite_note-SAM2-4)

[ninner]

270 is a great cartridge for anything in North America. The only down side for me is perceived recoil. Both my 700 and 111 kick like hell. I’d rather bench shoot my 300 win mag any day. Not a concern hunting though. Although the suppressed 300 blk gets the nod for anything under 100yds lately. Comfort has its place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[yobuck]

Well if I do my part, shoot the right kind of pills, set the correct thou off the lands, my 270 can do all Ma Deuce can do...all day long!
Well based on your requirements, would you care to name a few that wont?

[hawkeyesatx823]

Here’s an old article I would like to share, and see what everyone thinks about the author’s opinion:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/ross-seyfried-busting-the-magnum-myth/

I hope everyone reads it and gives an honest opinion.
I think the author is spot on!


Hawk

[Newtosavage]

You guys drive me to do more research than most forums I visit. A little off topic. Just enough to show that nothing we have is really new.

Early smokeless cartridges:
1884 Smokeless powder invented

1886 8mm Lebel (converted to smokeless)
1888 Patrone 88 (M/88, 7.9x57)
1889 7.65x53 Mauser
1892 .303 Brit (smokeless version)
1892 7x57 Mauser
1892 .30-40Krag
1894 6.5x55 Swedish
1895 .30-30Win
1895 6mm Lee
1889 7.5x55 Swiss
1903 8x57 Mauser (actual 7.92x57, based on the M/88, not the Mauser and was not developed by Mauser)
1903 .30-03 Springfield
1906 .30-06 Springfield

.30 (7.6) was considered a very "small' bore rifle of the day. The US Navy had the 6mm Lee for a very short time. The 7x57 did have a lot of influence after the Spanish-American war due to the ballistics and rifle it was fired from. It resulted in changes to the loading of the .303Brit as well as the US looking for a replacement of the Krag, both rifle and cartridge. By WWI most countries had adopted a cartridge between 7.6 and 8mm with spitzer bullets between 150 and 200gn. Interesting that even the Germans did not adopt the 7x57, instead moving to the 8x57, probably because the German government developed the 8x57.

I also looked for history of the .30-06 and could not fine specific reference to a 'parent' from any of the Mauser cartridges. The Springfield rifle action was developed from the various Mauser rifles of the day. First look, the rim dia of the 7x57 is .473 and the 8x57 is .470 (and has a slightly thicker rim). The .30-06 has the .473 rim but also has the thicker rim of the 8x57. So, it kinda looks like the US did the same thing here and took the 'good parts' of several designs.

One other note about the 6mm. The Navy did a report on it. Responses remind me of the early documents on the 5.56.

"The report also acknowledged that the 6 mm round had two principal disadvantages: first, as a small-caliber round, the 6 mm bullet would not sufficiently wound an enemy to put him out of action, and second, the "shock" or stopping power of the smaller bullet would not "stop the onset of excited men at short range".[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_Lee_Navy#cite_note-SAM2-4) In answer to these objections, the report gave three responses: first, "the battle of the future will be fought at long range, and men will not live to come to close quarters with an enemy who stands his ground"; second, "99 percent of wounded enemy soldiers were unlikely to investigate the severity of their wound, but simply retire to the rear", and last, "the explosive effect of a small-caliber, high-velocity bullet against the human body—the bullet tumbles or fragments to produce devastating wounds against bone or fluid-filled organs—would be more incapacitating at all ranges than wounds made by a slow-moving bullet of large caliber".[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_Lee_Navy#cite_note-SAM2-4)


Thank you for that.

Of that list, the 7x57, 6.5 Swede and '06 are still widely used which is a real credit to the design. Not much you can't do with those three.

[wbm]

Well based on your requirements, would you care to name a few that wont?

LOL. Nope. Can't say as I can. You?

[want2ride]

Thank you for that.

Of that list, the 7x57, 6.5 Swede and '06 are still widely used which is a real credit to the design. Not much you can't do with those three.

I did purchase a new Tikka 8x57 2 summers ago. They are apparently still quite popular in Europe.

[wbm]

"...no cartridge puts an elk on the ground more quickly than the .270 Winchester loaded with the magnificent (and now non-existent) 140 grain Winchester Failsafe bullet." Busting The Magnum Myth

There is a good reason the "magnificent (and now non existent) 140 grain Winchester Failsafe" is now non-existent.

[big honkin jeep]

Well granted I don't stop in as often as I used to, and didn't bother reading the preceding responses to your question, but I do have some info to ponder.
If you want to know just how good the .270 Winchester really is,
There is an impressive array of taxidermy on my 1st cousins wall and floors from a single trip to South Africa. It includes Warthog. Nyala, Zebras, Hardebeast, Blue Wildebeast, a Gold Medal Kudu, and a Gold Medal Eland that wound up being an unexpected bonus. All fell to a .270 loaded with factory Remington premier 130gr Sirocco Bonded bullets. That's right 130gr. bullets. African plains game is known to be extraordinarily tough but the same .270 Winchester that has served him well in North America made the trip and felled everything he chose on the African plains as well. As if the blood on the ground from the .270W all over the world is not enough
the .270W is capable of pushing a .277 130gr bullet at 3200fps. What's not to love?

[charlie b]

This does emphasize a really important point. Selection of bullets. You can mess up a hunt with a poor bullet choice more easily than a bad cartridge choice.

WDM Bell killed a bunch of elephants, lions and other dangerous game in Africa, many of them with a 7x57 Rigby built Mauser because he didn't like the recoil of the 'standard' African rifles messing up his shooting. He used military ammunition on elephants because he wanted the spitzer full metal jacket for the excellent penetration.

Shot placement and penetration.

[charlie b]

I did purchase a new Tikka 8x57 2 summers ago. They are apparently still quite popular in Europe.

Another tidbit. After WWI Germany was restricted on manufacturing military arms so Mauser rifles (in 8x57) were made in factories around the world. Many countries adopted the 8x57 as a result and for quite a while it was the most popular hunting cartridge in the world. Kinda like the .30-06 over here. Tons of rifles available for it, and it worked. The Jagermeisters in the villages around where I was stationed in Germany all used 8x57 rifles that had Mauser actions. One I talked to was using a sporterized WWII vintage rifle. Had a claw mount Zeiss scope on it and it had the original barrel on it.

[hawkeyesatx823]

I’ve been wondering, and also want to know how many forum members on here use a 140 gr bullet that is hand loaded to 130 gr speeds?
What has been your experience with the 140gr bullets on game?
I would surely like to know.


Hawk