111 .270 discharged when I closed the bolt

[DSinOR]

Hello - I had a small scare at the range yesterday.

My 111 270 fired a round downrange when I closed the bolt. It happened during a match, and was witnessed by a few friends.

Events: right-hand shooter; firing prone; fired one shot; ejected spent brass; closed the bolt; oops - experienced a "click" on the 2nd shot; rolled slightly onto my left side facing my friends who were seated to the right of my position; muzzle downrange; waited about 15 seconds; opened the bolt on an empty chamber. This was my fault: when cycling the bolt between 1st and 2nd shot while prone, I had failed to bring the bolt far enough back to catch the next round in the magazine, hence dry fire. There was a bit of laughing and talking as I pulled the bolt fully rearward so that it would catch the 2nd round. At this point the muzzle was downrange, but about 30° angle above horizontal, butt contacting the ground. I closed the bolt in my normal fashion and just as I completed locking the bolt down, the rifle discharged.

We stopped the match, checked the rifle, talked about possible causes, and eventually I finished the match with that rifle with no more problems, however I finished the day closing the bolt gingerly with the muzzle pointed directly at the berm for each shot.

A few comments about how I operate a bolt:
In the prone position, I function the bolt slowly and methodically with my thumb and two fingertips pinching the ball. My other two fingers are in the "closed-fist" position.
When the unintentional discharge happened, I was not "prone" per se. It was after the "click" dry fire. I was propped up diagonally on my left elbow & left side, therefore my right hand had a full range of motion, and I just habitually used my normal bolt operation, which is to open the bolt by pinching the ball between my thumb and the side of my forefinger, lift and pull back. That's when the empty chamber was discovered. To close the bolt "normally", ie not prone, I completely open my palm and fingers and use the heel of my palm to shove the bolt forward and down with mild-to-medium speed and force (not gingerly, but not overly forceful either, just normal). I offer this lengthy description because this open-palm method is how I was taught to operate a bolt in most situations (ie not prone). It keeps all fingers clear of the trigger area completely. One of my friends even said right after the UD that he had noticed my open palm when I closed the bolt on that round. Bottom line - I did not contact the trigger or even the triggerguard when closing the bolt over that round.

Other info: it was a 110gr Vmax over 50gr 4350, WLR primer, freshly trimmed Fed brass, 3.240 coal = 0.025" off lands for that bullet in that rifle. Loaded in a Lee Classic, with light crimp from LFCD.

I didn't inspect that particular round prior to firing because I was simply firing rounds at a match. So I can't say with 100% certainty that the round was perfect, but my years-long habits for seating primers, the lack of variation in coal in the other rounds from that match, the Lee seater and LFCD system, all make it unlikely that the problem is attributable to high primer or excessive coal. The UD brass ejected smoothly and did not have pressure indicators or a flatter primer than the other spent brass.

The rifle does not have an accutrigger. Last year, I lightly stoned the sear surfaces and set the adjustable spring for ~2.75lb pull. The trigger has a small amount of creep. I've fired approximately 200 rounds through it since that time.

After the UD, two experienced fellas pulled my trigger, and both agreed that because of the small amount of creep and reasonable weight, the trigger mechanism itself was not the obvious cause. We banged the stock around, and we did some hard bolt-slamming-shut testing to see if we could jar the rifle into failure, but it didn't fail, so as mentioned above, I finished the match with it and even went on to win one relay. (For those who might be interested, Burris 3-9x40 FF on Burris 2-piece steel base with Zee Sig rings with 10° & 5° inserts front and rear resp. With this load, it's 0.7moa at 200yd before and after beating on the rifle to test for trigger failure.)

I've been firing bolt action rifles and all manner of firearms for 29 years. I'm habitually careful. This is the 1st time I've ever experienced a firearm discharging without my intent.

It puts me in a curious position: In the past, hearing others tell tales of UD, I never listened for long or entered the conversation. I always just assumed that since firearms don't fire themselves, the handler clearly did something wrong. Now I know what the other side of the fence feels like. I didn't fire that round, but it sure went downrange.

Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to try to get all the salient information out up front.

I'm interested in finding out if any other shooters have ever experienced this with a Savage rifle? I would love to identify a cause, remedy it, and thereby regain my 100% trust and confidence in the rifle.

Welcome any comments, suggestions, questions, etc.

Thanks.

[dcloco]

You changed the angle of the sear and adjusted the pull weight?

"The rifle does not have an accutrigger. Last year, I lightly stoned the sear surfaces and set the adjustable spring for ~2.75lb pull. The trigger has a small amount of creep. I've fired approximately 200 rounds through it since that time."

Buy an aftermarket trigger and take the rifle to a competent gunsmith.

[Blue Avenger]

You change the spring to a lighter one? reducing pressure in a heave one also reduces its travel.

[Captain Finlander]

I am sure you'll get a bunch of replies to this one. I personally have never experienced an accidental discharge but it seems to happen more often than people are willing to admit.

You may never experience it again but what I would do is test it with snap caps in an effort to replicate the incident. It doesn't take much vibration to trip a light trigger and you must have experiences just the right conditions.

[chemist1]

If it is the pre-accutrigger it has probably been adjusted below a safe weight. My friend had the same problem. If the bolt was closed while the gun was horizontal the trigger will set and function "properly", however, if the gun is vertical the trigger will trip when the bolt is closed. The pull weight needs to be increased or an aftermarket trigger needs to be installed.

[wbm]

Check the spring tension. Sometimes the screw that puts tension on the trigger works counter clockwise and becomes loose. Rotate the spring tension screw three or four turns clockwise and increase the tension. Work the bolt and try to make it slam fire. If it still slam fires then the problem is probably wear on the sear surfaces. The sear surfaces are hardened on the surface and depending on how much stoning you did the surfaces may have become worn. I really think I would just replace the trigger with one of the aftermarket triggers from SSS, Rifle Basic, or Timney.

[dwm]

If you stoned the sear, I would buy another sear and replace the one you stoned.

Great triggers for Savages are available for around $90, they can not be beat for function and safety.

[tammons]

Probably why you read everywhere not to modify a trigger.

Whatever you did and/or however you have it set up is not safe IMO.

Put an SSS trigger on it.

If you are going to work on a trigger, set it up, put it in the stock, cock the bolt with no shell in the chamber or use a sapcap and bang the snot out of the butt on a hard floor and make sure it stays cocked with the safety on, off or whatever.

That's what I have always done and never had a problem.

[Ken O]

Had this happen a couple times at a LR prone match last year. I got up and was going to quit when the guy on the next fireing point (a gunsmith) said to check the screw on the end of the bolt. He was right, it must have worked loose, I tightened in and no more problems. This might not be your problem, but something to check.

[DSinOR]

Thanks for the feedback.

The rifle still passes a "bump test" with pretty severe shock from all different directions.

I've done a lot of triggers in ~25 yrs (with no previous problems) and I always test them pretty good. This is my 1st Savage. For those who don't know - the factory trigger in this rifle provides an adjustment for the weight of pull. The screw is indexed aginst the spring to prevent it from "walking" out of adjustment. Initially, I didn't think it was too l light, because it never failed in testing or months of use. Now it's cold weather, and it fails. Maybe I was right on the edge of tolerance. So I think wbm is right - I probably set it too light.

Polishing or lightly stoning sear surfaces makes for smoother travel and crisper break. It can be done without cutting through all of the surface hardening on Savage components, or altering angle. It's not a cardinal sin. In fact, given the state of today's craftsmanship, it's necessary on most triggers. Kudos to Savage for being the 1st to re-up the ante in the trigger department with their accu line. I'd have bought one except for the blade. Many people feel that $350 is such a bargain that a buyer should expect a poor trigger. I'm not in that group. I shoot well, and this rifle does not disappoint, but I won't be convinced that the gritty, creepy, super heavy factory trigger could be justified by any manufacturer of good rifles, or that i should expect to add $100 or more to my purchase of a new rifle just to obtain the privelege of a decent trigger. To each his own. :)

Last night I bump tested again with no failures. Then I cycled the action 100 times (empty brass). It's cold here, and the rifle was at ambient (35°F). The failure occurred again twice within the first 10 attempts, then never again. I was using mild force on the bolt. It only occurs when closing the bolt, never when banging or bumping the rifle. It stopped failing after the parts "loosened up" a bit. I keep all guns pretty clean and not over lubed, but I'll check the bolt and everything else for crud, excess lube, etc just to be sure.

I'll also check for the loose bolt screw mentioned by Ken O. I'll increase the pull weight, and inspect sear surfaces under magnification. If the increased weight doesn't fix it, I think I'll try a Rifle Basix trigger, in stock at Midway.

Thanks to all. Good shooting!

[Blue Avenger]

rather then up the spring pressure get a lighter wire and make a new spring that will have more travel.

[big honkin jeep]

I had an UD on a .300rum. IT made an additional adjustment to the sear engagement screw from recoil. Do you have the sear engagement screw cleaned with alcohol and locked down with loctite? I have seen several trigger tutorials that skip this very important step. I have not had a savage trigger yet that required stoning and have been able to get a light smooth crisp pull. I even welded a bead on a lawyer trigger where the sear engagement screw goes and filed down the weld for a shorter engagement. I never touch the sear surface because there is too little room for error on the angle.
Another possible cause is if you have changed out the trigger return spring or the spring on the bolt stop and have gone with a wire that's too thin you may have gone too light and the sear did not fully seat before your UD.

Good luck figureing it out
BHJ