Savage110 fp 223

[Dave Hoback]

Third party Host them through IMGBB. Can download from your device, then click the picture. It will load on another page, then click the up/down arrows. Copy the “BB” code, and paste here in your thread.
https://imgbb.com/

[Robinhood]

Finally got to the range .Another question is the bolt handle supposed to move? How do I post pictures?

If you are talking about the bolt handle jumping or moving when you pull the trigger, "Bolt Bounce"....It is probably being caused by the motion of the firing pin. As the trigger is pulled it releases the cocking piece pin. This pin is captured in a window on the side of the bolt body. This window is the cocking ramp and the area the cocking piece pin free falls(with the firing pin) to ignite the primer. If the bolt body is not timed perfectly in its rotation it may impact the ramp or the radius on its way to striking the primer. The twist or rotation of the firing pin spring can also cause this. That type of spring stores rotational energy. Dual counter wound springs are used to combat this like in the newer bolts.

You can experiment with your rifle to determine if it is one or the other. When dry firing your rifle close your bolt all of the way to the bottom of rotation. Pull trigger and note the "jump" or "movement". Do it again only this time, lift the bolt handle a minute amount and note the jump when you pull the trigger. Then again, lift more, then fire. Eventually you will see a minimum bounce, when you have found the sweet spot. I could be wrong but Try it and see.

If you have reduced your firing pin spring preload this condition(bolt bounce) could effect primer impact weight which in turn could cause accuracy or primer FTF situations. These are worst case scenarios but it proves that sometimes us Savagesmiths can be our own worst enemy. Don't ask me how I know this.

[GrenGuy]

What do We do when We discover the “sweet spot” ?

I’m sure We don’t fire the rifle with the bolt partially open.

[Robinhood]

What do We do when We discover the “sweet spot” ?

I’m sure We don’t fire the rifle with the bolt partially open.

If you find the sweet spot rub until it gets you were you want to go.

If you mean the location I referred to that would indicate that the longest portion of the cocking ramp window is aligned perfectly? It depends on if it is causing trouble in my opinion. I don't suspect you of this but a lot of people read how this guy or that guy reduced his bolt lift. Some of that can creat ...or has the potential to cause other issues.

I am not sure what partially open is on a bolt action rifle but I would investigate the machine work on the bolt if you felt like you lugs were not engaged sufficiently.

Savage rifles have been known to have tolerances that may effect the function of their rifles. Not all of them but some of them. combine that with ignorant people like me fiddling with things we didn't understand at the time....They may also have at one time relied upon worn tooling or fixtures that in combination the machine work on the bolt, the actions bolt stop relief or maybe even the indexing when machining the cocking ramp window, bolt head retaining pin or maybe the location of the bolt handle anti rotation lugs. Have not taken the time to set up any inspection tools to verify any of this. I have however developed a hypothesis developed by rotating the handle to different positions and finding a spot where the Bolt Bounce was minimized.

When I was customizing bolt handles I TIG'ed a bump on the bottom of a few handles where it meets the action on bolt close, then filed them to get the right location where there was less bounce. I don't mess with them anymore and when I rebuild one of the older bolts to the specs I prefer I don't have a problem with poor ignition so I could care less.

Many people may never experience this and some will not recognize or care if it does happen. I just offered my opinion on the OP's question. I am hoping you have something to add so this topic goes to sleep.

[GrenGuy]

Well, the subject came up, the question was asked by the OP, we’re not hijacking the thread, so I don’t see any urgency to put it to sleep. I have done a lot to reduce bolt lift and smooth the action function, but I don’t think I have created any other problems. There is bolt movement (jump) when a Savage action is fired. I guess “timing the action” can minimize this, but I seem to remember this is a proprietary-trade secret, performed by very few talented individuals. Compared to a high end custom action, the Savage can be considered crude, or course. In spite of this, and the huge difference in cost, I have found Savages to be very competitive, accuracy wise. A good reason most of us are on this site. I guess I’m thinking, “a little bolt jump ain’t no big deal” ?

I’m always looking for ways to improve My Savage actions, so this has My attention.

I’m just not getting it :confused:

Maybe I need pictures :rolleyes:...Thanks GG

[Hnusz]

Not bouncing just loose . I tightened it up and it dont move anymore. Was wondering if it being loose would cause the primers to back out . After being fired the primer sits proud. Does not do that in my ar. Same batch of ammo . Once fired 223 s&b srp 24grs varget rmr 55gr fmjbt. Still cant get pictures to post haven't used a hosting site before. Thanks

[GrenGuy]

If Your Bolt Assembly Screw was loose, it’s good You got that tightened up.

Proud primers can can come from excessive Head Space, or thin primers bleeding back into the firing pin hole. I have had this situation bad enough with CCI 400 primers that a spent case would not go into the shell holder. My bolts are now Bushed with the firing pin turned to match. No more off center strikes, no more primer bleed, no more Fail to Fire with Small Rifle Primers.

[Hnusz]

Its not primer bleed the whole primer is proud. Tried to upgrade to paid so I could post pictures but I don't do PayPal

[GrenGuy]

Your description is adequate without pictures. If Your Bolt Assembly Screw (BAS) was loose, I guess it could cause Your problem, don’t know, I’ve never seen it before. But it’s almost positive, for what ever reason, You have too much Head Space.

[GrenGuy]

As far as the Bolt Bounce issue is concerned, I wonder if it occurs “after” the firing pin contacts the primer, or in the case of an empty chamber, the firing pin hits its stop. This could explain why it doesn’t detract from Savage accuracy?

Or maybe it “only” occurs when dry firing.

I just know I’m not paying attention to it when I’m shooting a relay.

[Robinhood]

As far as the Bolt Bounce issue is concerned, I wonder if it occurs “after” the firing pin contacts the primer, or in the case of an empty chamber, the firing pin hits its stop. This could explain why it doesn’t detract from Savage accuracy?

Or maybe it “only” occurs when dry firing.

I just know I’m not paying attention to it when I’m shooting a relay.

Also when I spoke about "Bounce" I neglected to mention any upwards movement of bolt body. I described rotational movement causes.

I have only noticed it when dry firing also...for reason you mentioned there is a difference in the way energy is applied to the bolt assembly. That could cause the bolt to move up and down in the raceway. Im not sure I buy into that causing the rotional/bolt handle movement. Again that is my opinion. There is only so much that can cause it and I think between the two of us we have covered it. I don't know what to think about a loose BAS.

[Dave Hoback]

I could be wrong, but it seems slight bolt bounce with Savage is not a big deal because of the floating bolt head. It’s no secret that the factory bolt body has quite a bit of play in the Action. I don’t know.... just how I’m seeing it through it’s function.

To the OP: look at my answer in post #21. It’s very easy to Third party host. It’s actually beneficial to the Admin., (Jim Baker) as it doesn’t use their Server’s memory.

[Hnusz]

Just the bolt handle was moving you could move it up and down and front to back. Tightened up the bolt screw and it dont move. Was just wondering if that would allow the bolt to move back upon firing. Picked up a case gauge yesterday. Brass is sized to spec . Don't know if I want to get a set of go no go gauges and try to fix it myself or take it to a gunsmith.

[Dave Hoback]

Just get a "Go" gauge. No reason for a "No Go". Piece of take works just fine. Or I can even make you up a headspacing shim. .002", .003"...whatever headspace you wanted. I use a .0025" on mine.

[GrenGuy]

Take it to a Gunsmith.

[Dave Hoback]

Is this factory ammo the primers are doing this with? And, is this happening with every shot or did just a few exhibit this condition? If this is the norm now with factory ammo(not your or another's reloads) & you are not confident in isolating & correcting the cause, the smart option is to take it to a gunsmith.

[Hnusz]

Not factory ammo my reload's. Have measured brass from both rifles the savage and the ar. The brass from both rifles is within. 001 to .002 of each other . The only difference is the brass from the savage the primer sits proud. 010 to .015 on all 50 rounds of mixed headstamp 223 once fired brass. Not worried about setting headspace just wondering why the primers are sitting proud. Still haven't figured out how to post pictures from a third party host might have better luck from a laptop. But at 100 yards you can cover a five shot group with a quarter.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, if it's happening with these, but not factory ammo, the problem is your reloaded rounds. Does not matter that it doesn't happen in your AR. Your AR uses a 5.56 chamber. The 110 is a 223 chamber.

Excessive headspace, underpressure loads, loose primer pockets or not being fully seated from the start known causes. Perhaps the shoulders are bumped back too much...perhaps they are cut too short....or THAT SPECIFIC CHAMBER in your 110. If I had your rifle and the cases, I could narrow down the exact "WHY". If you are reloading you should be able to as well.

[Hnusz]

Don't have any factory ammo but will pick up a box when I can I work 12 days on 2 off. Don't think its under pressure loads 24grs of varget is a compressed load. Have shot these loads in another ar and a couple of bolt guns with no problems. So I'm pretty sure its this rifle was just wondering what to look for as far as worn spots or other issues that other members that have these rifles.

[hamiltonkiler]

Don't have any factory ammo but will pick up a box when I can I work 12 days on 2 off. Don't think its under pressure loads 24grs of varget is a compressed load. Have shot these loads in another ar and a couple of bolt guns with no problems. So I'm pretty sure its this rifle was just wondering what to look for as far as worn spots or other issues that other members that have these rifles.

Must work In golf.. quit now [emoji2]

There is life to live.


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