Which would be best

[Robinhood]

When are we going to stop convincing ourselves what it takes, and realize that it takes the same thing as winning the lottery.
Sooner of later somebody does.

Sometimes it was the guy or gal that bought their first ticket, sometimes it was the one who had been buying lots of tickets for years. What we do know is that the winner bought a ticket.

[charlie b]

Yep, it can be like winning the lottery.

Cortina has a video of a very small 1000yd group (an inch or so IIRC). He recorded the velocities. If you check ballistics the velocity changes should have moved at least two bullets about 5in away from the group. But, they ended up on top of the others. Luck? I suspect so. Shooting at just the right time so the wind would push them into the group.

Hunting is a lot different than bench rest or F class shooting. PRS and NRL are closer to hunting type pressure with timed shots and variable shooting positions.

[Smokey262]

I have decided to not use a lot of them. Believe it or not, I found several that were over .100" bumped too far back, one was even .120"

Think of the time savings by being able to eyeball the variation from 6 feet away without tools

[yobuck]

Sometimes it was the guy or gal that bought their first ticket, sometimes it was the one who had been buying lots of tickets for years. What we do know is that the winner bought a ticket.
Well that part is very true.
We will never win if we dont play, and thats life as a whole.
I heard my father say numerous times that he could have bought that for a boot, but he didnt have the boot.
The guy that did buy it probably didnt either, but what he did have was bigger gonads. lol

There is no doubt that long range shooting both as a purely entertainment form, as well as the various competitive forms of it have been a big shot in the arm for the shooting industry.
Especially within the last 25 or 30 years.
We have come a very long way in pretty much every way you care to compare within that time period as for equipment and components.
Except the results really havent changed in the same proportion.
Those five ground hog hunters that started the worlds first 1000 yd benchrest club now more than half a century ago, were already killing lots of groundhogs well beyond 1000 yds.
The guns and ammo they used to do that were just as accurate as most of those being used today.
And for those who dont know, very accurate rangefinders were in use during WW1and WW2 and those guys had them.
They also knew about dialing scopes, which very few people did, even those who owned the same type scopes, which at that time were the only ones that could be dialed.

[Robinhood]

To sum this whole thing up for me is Mr. Snerdly asked how he should sort his brass. In his mind, I believe that weather it was through his own recognition or that someone put it in his mind, sorting brass was a potential pathway to better accuracy. At least that was the premise of my response.

Through time, the best shooters and the fledglings alike have found that all rounds fired being as equal as possible, longer range group size benefited. That concept opens the door for a myriad of inspections and preparations. Not limited to the cases but extending to the primers powder and bullets. There is no doubt that one day one shooter shot a record book group that has been matched only a few times since. The thing that has changed is that many more fellas are shooting very small groups with a variety of cartridges in a variety of positions. Great conversation gentlemen.

[yobuck]

Well hopefully Mr Snerdly has been enlightened on the brass issue. lol
For what its worth i do believe carefully loaded ammo along with a good gun and shooter is a requirement for good shooting.
The issue in my mind is how good?
25 years ago for example most good shooters didnt anneal their cases.
Now we are told by at least some that you need to do it every time you reload the case in order to have proper neck tension.
As for the powder weighing issue, a strong argument can be made in favor of volume measuring as opposed to weighing.
But, the key issue is and probably always will be conditions.
No doubt more and more shooters have come to recognize that conditions is the one element they have no control over.
And they have also found that shooting much faster is one way to overcome that.
Visit a 1000 yd long range benchrest today and you might just be shocked over the fact that many shooters have 10 shots downrange in under 1 minit.
That requires an expensive joystick front rest in order to accomplish.
The gun slides back with recoil, but they no longer take the time to push it back forward and realign it on the bags.
Instead they just realign the scope on the target and shoot.
So Robinhood, what in your opinion has had the most impact on the results we see? and i do agree we are seeing them.
Precise powder charges, precise neck tension, or beating the conditions.
Yes yes i know, probably all of them combined. lol

You will find that Eric Cortina is using one of those also if you watch closely.

[Robinhood]

I think knowledge is the greatest impact. Possibly the internet.

Consistent neck tension was achieved by those top shooters of yesterday. Their cartridges were small their chambers were specific as was their brass. I can all but guarantee that brass was culled when one that may have needed annealing was shelved for shooting higher or whatever. Annealing came on line when people discovered the manufacturers doing it after forming the brass. Some guy said. I had 10 pieces out 100 that took a dramatically different amount of force to seat the bullet. What is happening here?

Powder weighing was when some competitive guy started looking for an edge and tried something different. Like all the rest...it is all driven by competition.

In my younger days I raced RC cars. Learning to tune your car, Learning about spring rates, suspension angles caster and camber, anti-squat control arm lengths and attachment points, on and on. Competition drove the need for better cars and more knowledge. If you don't know you don't know.

Trying new things at the right time in a controlled environment teaches you a lot of things and sometimes opens up another train of thought. Random changes or more than one change makes learning curves steeper. Improvements come at the hand of research and development.

Barrel harmonics .................

Knowledge and the application is my answer.

[charlie b]

And then there are the times when you have a really good day at the range. Your groups are all much less than usual and you didn't change anything. :)

Yesterday I had one of those days. But, I screwed them up again. One group especially. 4 shots into a ragged hole at 100yd, yep, 0.25", with cast bullets. And, yes, the fifth shot was an inch away. Another was .5" group and again, one round out 1". Both times to the left. Now to figure out what I am doing wrong.

[Mr.Snerdly]

I feel like a total idiot and can't believe how careless I was. It should be .012". A man should always double check his accuracy before posting. This is way out of spec though and I can't believe it would be able to work with any degree of accuracy. Damn case could almost get turned sideways. Well, maybe not quite that bad but it seems way, way too loose.

[Robinhood]

And then there are the times when you have a really good day at the range. Your groups are all much less than usual and you didn't change anything. :)

Yesterday I had one of those days. But, I screwed them up again. One group especially. 4 shots into a ragged hole at 100yd, yep, 0.25", with cast bullets. And, yes, the fifth shot was an inch away. Another was .5" group and again, one round out 1". Both times to the left. Now to figure out what I am doing wrong.


Imagine that at 300. Three inches out!

Set your phone up to video all of your shots. Call out each round so you can match the video with the target.You might be doing something different on those flyers. If not, it is your cartridge or gun.

[charlie b]

It is me. I get complacent about the shot and don't set up right, force the trigger instead of letting it happen, move my head (change force on cheek), etc, etc. I mark each shot. The smallest group I shot three into a small hole, pulled the fourth and fifth went into the hole. The other one was 4 into small group and fifth one was out.

This is not new to me and my shooting technique. Rushing the shot or looking to see where the shot goes before the trigger is pulled. I have same problem with shooting trap, skeet and playing golf. Several really good shots, then a flub. I've only had one perfect round of skeet in several years of shooting. Tons of 24/25.

[yobuck]

It is me. I get complacent about the shot and don't set up right, force the trigger instead of letting it happen, move my head (change force on cheek), etc, etc. I mark each shot. The smallest group I shot three into a small hole, pulled the fourth and fifth went into the hole. The other one was 4 into small group and fifth one was out.

This is not new to me and my shooting technique. Rushing the shot or looking to see where the shot goes before the trigger is pulled. I have same problem with shooting trap, skeet and playing golf. Several really good shots, then a flub. I've only had one perfect round of skeet in several years of shooting. Tons of 24/25.
Self inflicted pressure?

[charlie b]

Yep. When I get a good group I start thinking too much instead of getting in the 'groove'.

[yobuck]

Maybe start thinking 24 out of 25 is the groove and be happy.
Or maybe convince yourself a new Kreigoff would fix it. lol
They are located at the intersections of Rt 113 and Rt 611 in Ottsville Pa.

[charlie b]

LOL, yeah. I know of a couple guys who went that route and were surprised they couldn't shoot any better. I was using a plain Rem 1100, sold a few years ago. Now days I just shoot rifle. Don't even golf anymore.

[Robinhood]

LOL, yeah. I know of a couple guys who went that route and were surprised they couldn't shoot any better. I was using a plain Rem 1100, sold a few years ago. Now days I just shoot rifle. Don't even golf anymore.


It sucks to get old.

[charlie b]

Yeah it does. Still like to go fly fishing, and the hiking that usually goes with it. :)

[yobuck]

LOL, yeah. I know of a couple guys who went that route and were surprised they couldn't shoot any better. I was using a plain Rem 1100, sold a few years ago. Now days I just shoot rifle. Don't even golf anymore.
I was just baiting you Charlie lol.
I only knew the address because i lived fairly close to them.
Rode by the place often but never curious enough to stop.
My opinion is that the top tier shooters are like top tier people in other sports, they have it and most of us dont, and we will only get so far in our quest to get it.
Much of that comes from their ability to control the self inflicted pressure.
I once had a guy bet me 5 dollars back when i was about 16, that i couldnt keep all ten shots in the black from the offhand position (standing), on a
50’ smallbore target.
I got 9 of them, but i think i missed the entire target on the last shot.
The guy had a good laugh and refused the 5 dollars.
That was at the Conestoga Gun Club indoor range in Southampton Pa.
I was often assigned to a spotting scope during the matches there.
Just to assure that stray prone shots didnt find their way into the 10 ring of an offhand target.
At one of the regional matches i watched a then very young Arthur Cook shoot a 4 position 400 possible score.
Obviously he could handle the pressure.
As for age, it can also be used as the excuse some of us have been waiting for for decades.

[charlie b]

I agree. I have never been able to handle pressure well.


Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

[GaCop]

It sucks to get old. Yeah, kinda suxs to get old but. it's a gift too......better than the alternative.