Ok, all BS aside, what is a great scope for long range shooting?

[Txhillbilly]

[QUOTE=Txhillbilly;487391]


Tex, Is this that place out in Cresson that has now been closed down?

There is a place 20 minutes west of me called TAC PRO. It has a 1000 yard range but I have never actually shot there... yet. Sounds like a good place for us to go and maybe you can show me how its done since I have never shot further than the 381 yards ( 350 meters ) on my place.

By the way, I have a Barrett M99 50 BMG that has never had its legs stretched out either.... sounds like we need to make that happen now that the good weather is almost here.

Yes, That is at Triple C Tactical. Hopefully, He will get the issue worked out that he has with the other property owned by a Trust.
I've shot at Tac Pro years ago, but there's another 1200 yard range - ETTS, that's about 45 minutes south of me that I'll probably join since Triple C is closed.

I'm always game for shooting long range!

[geneackley]

I have shot to 1000 with my 10 and 12 power SWFA SS's and they did ok.
I have shot to 1000 with my Burris XTR2's, the 3-15, 4-20 and 5-25's all did great and are a significant step up from the SWFA's, better glass, better reticles and just as reliable tracking as the swfa's. i got them for $620, $700, $720 and $800. This scope is built like a tank and if you love SWFA's, then this is right up your alley. For the price i just love them. The down side, the early ones are not known for their glass and i have one old one that is not great. I also have one that is pretty good and two that have excellent glass. Generally the real optical snobs think that only the 4-20 is great glass, but one of my 3-15's ranks right up there with the 4-20 i have. I HIGHLY recommend this scope! These were built in the Phillippines.
I have also shot to 1000 with my Steiner P4Xi, same great tracking that other burris/steiner products have, but by far better glass than the XTR2's... if the turrets weren't so stiff it would be a slam dunk when i got it on sale for $750. It really has spectacular glass, a lighted SCR reticle, zero stop and a revolution indicator for when you are dialing past 10 MIL. I like it a lot even with the stiff turrets. This is built right here in the good ole USA in Colorado, so there is that.
I have gone to 800 with my Burris Veracity, and Athalon Ares BTR Gen1 with the gen 2 turrets I got them from expertvoice and am not supposed to disclose the discounted price, but they were both pretty good for the money. The Burris Veracity (have 3 of them) is my favorite hunting scope and very nice optional "Mad Knob" turrets, but once the zero stop is set you are limited to one revolution of the turret (25 MOA) and they only come in MOA scopes. But the E1 FFP reticle is a genius design and you can see it at low power 30 minutes after sunset (a feat that is hard to match with a non lighted FFP reticle) it uses a progressively thick reticle design, i believe it is patented and why you just don't see it on other brands. The athalon Ares BTR is just a really nice well thought out ffp target scope. I have a very late gen 1 that was made with the gen 2 turrets and they are nice turrets, but don't really hold a candle to the Burris XTR2 turrets. The glass is respectable and it is about as good as my better XTR2 glass and i really like the reticle a WHOLE LOT! Overall i really can't recommend the Veracity or the Athalon Ares BTR over the Burris XTR2 if you are looking for a target scope. Honestly i am not sure where either is built, but i want to say the veracity might be phillipines and the Ares BTR might be China.
I have shot out to 1473 yards with my Zeiss V4 Conquest 4-16x44. on my 300 WSM Savage Ultralite It shot a nice 4 shot group about a MOA, but i never measured. It has nice turrets, good glass but not spectacular like the Steiner. It is a second focal plane scope, and i generally am not a fan of second focal plane scopes. It has a ZBR2 reticle, so it is a nice Christmas tree reticle. This scope does everything well, but IMO it doesn't do anything spectacular. I also got this from expertvoice so i can't discuss price, but i have seen them around $800 pretty often. it is a very alright scope. I have shot this combo out farther than any other gun i own, but that is due to not being able to shoot some of my better guns at that distance... because i am sure i can.
I just picked up a Bushnell BMR2 from Midway for $720 and i haven't actually shot the rifle it is on yet, but it seems to have pretty nice glass and was made in the LOW factory in Japan and everything i have read tells me that this is a very low risk buy. The G3 is a super nice reticle and it has a great feeling turret (maybe not as good of feeling turret as the XTR2, but still pretty dang nice) I was thinking about getting one with the illuminated G3 reticle for $820 after i saw how nice the non-illuminated one is.
I have shot out to 1473 with my brothers gun that has a Kahles... not sure on model, but it is better than any scope i have. great reticle, turrets, nice and clear (not as clear as his steiner t5xi, but that is a fantastic scope too). It is honestly hard not to recommend a Steiner t5xi, Kahles, Revic... etc it all depends on what you need but they are all over $2k.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such an extensive reply. There is much to chew on here.. and be sure that I will.

I am pretty certain that I want FFP and MIL turrets and reticule... and not a "hunting scope".

I can't really spend $2000 right now...but I could do $1000. So some of those 750 dollar jobs sound perfect!!!

I looked at a Burris XTR II once a couple of years back and it was built like a brick shit house ( thats a good thing in Texas - ha ha ), but the glass seemed dark. I am a senior citizen with old eyes and wear glasses to boot, so light is important to me... which is probably one of the reasons I have used fixed power scopes ( fewer lenses ) for so long... and lower cost and more ruggedness too.

The Bushnell BMR2 that you mention intreagues me and the price is right... Txhillbilly speaks highly of another Bushnell called the DMR2... so thats two recomendations for Bushnells that I may have to follow up closely on...

Again thank you all so much. Your advice is really educational and helpful!!!

[Robinhood]

There is no BMR, I believe it was a misquoteBushnell Elite Tactical DMR II 3.5-21x50 - G3 under $900



(https://cameralandny.com/shop/brands/bushnell/bushnell-elite-tactical-dmr-ii-3-5-21x50-g3/71f93030-ab3a-0137-4a17-00163ecd2826?variation=1992704)https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020586712?pid=144123

[want2ride]

There is no BMR, I believe it was a misquoteBushnell Elite Tactical DMR II 3.5-21x50 - G3 under $900



(https://cameralandny.com/shop/brands/bushnell/bushnell-elite-tactical-dmr-ii-3-5-21x50-g3/71f93030-ab3a-0137-4a17-00163ecd2826?variation=1992704)https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020586712?pid=144123
Yep, thanks for the correction. I am not sure why i typed Bmr2 when it was obviously the Dmr2... I think i wrote BTR too many times when i was talking about the athalon scope i have and just got the old wires crossed.

[Txhillbilly]

The Bushnell DMR II is a little outdated feature wise, but it's probably the best scope out there under $1k. To beat what it brings to the shooter, you'll have to look at scopes in the $1500 range, and most scopes today in that range only offer different versions of a Christmas tree reticle that tend to be rather busy for some of us.

[geneackley]

Ok, After some consideration I pulled the trigger on the Bushnell DMR 2... primarily because Midway had it on sale for 815 bucks... but I also got some rings and scope caps for a little extra.....

Japanese optics, no Chinese plastic junk.

And unlike with the ARKENS, I dont have to wait 5 months for my scope!!!

[geneackley]

The Bushnell DMR II is a little outdated feature wise, but it's probably the best scope out there under $1k. To beat what it brings to the shooter, you'll have to look at scopes in the $1500 range, and most scopes today in that range only offer different versions of a Christmas tree reticle that tend to be rather busy for some of us.


Done!!!!!

[geneackley]

https://youtu.be/qvNGa7_LxWY

[Fuj']

Nightforce, Kahles, Schmidt and Bender, ZCO, Swarovski, Steiner.

And don't forget March !!

[Fuj']

Well, I know all those companies exist... I can look in their catalogs all day long.

But I was hoping to hear from someone here who has a particular model (with many of the characteristics described) who could give me his own first hand insight into his chosen optic...

Salesmen will tell you anything; Consumers and end-user are more likely to tell you the real story... which is what I am after.

How much are you willing to spend ?? Do you want Schott or Deon ED Glass ??
You mentioned "a bit more reach". So what power range do you think you need ??
I have no problem shooting to 1000 yards with one of my Bushnell 6-24x50 Elites.

[Fuj']

Like I told you on the phone, the Bushnell DMR II is one of the best bang for the buck scopes that you'll find right now.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020586712?pid=144123

Other than that, you're looking at scopes that will cost twice the price and more.
Athlon Cronus BTR
Delta Stryker HD
Sightron SIII
Tract Toric HD
Nightforce
S&B
Kahles
Minox
Leica
And others.

Let me add Trijicon to that list. The AccuPower Is as rugged as they get,though
heavy and a 34mm body. Which brings up another point. Before pulling the trigger,
make sure you have the mounts and rings figured out first.

[yobuck]

The reason for the tapered reticle as described in Want2rides post is because the scope is a first focal plane model.
The reticle will increase in its size as the power is increased in first focal plane scopes, whereas in second focal plane scopes they stay the same size thruout the power range.
The tapered reticle design however is nothing new, and i doubt it is patented.
The Bausch & Lomb Balvar line of scopes popular back in the 60s and 70s were first focal plane scopes, and were only available with the tapered cross hair reticle.
The reticle was actually a separate (lens), with the cross hair (etched) onto it.
The B & L Balvar 6x24 variable target model scope had the same reticle, as did all the others in that line of scopes.
I used one of those scopes on one of my long range guns for about 30 years, only recently replacing it with a Nightforce due to the urging of my sons.
I had an after market rear micrometor type mount very similar to the old Unertles.
From my 100 yd zero i had over 500 1/4 minit clicks of elevation in that setup.
I needed 200 of them to get out to 1700 with the gun when it was a 30x378.
If i had my time to do over, that scope would still be on that gun.

[yobuck]

How much are you willing to spend ?? Do you want Schott or Deon ED Glass ??
You mentioned "a bit more reach". So what power range do you think you need ??
I have no problem shooting to 1000 yards with one of my Bushnell 6-24x50 Elites.
Fuj, maybe you could tell us about ED glass, and how much of it is actually used by (ALL) scope makers in the building of a scope.
Lean over bub and ill sell you one with the very best glass. lol

[yobuck]

[QUOTE. I have a 50 BMG that has never been properly pushed out close to its limits... I have a fixed SWFA 16x on it....
Sell that turkey Gene, and use the money to buy something worth having.
You just cant impress things to death, it takes actually hitting them in order to accomplish that.
And you wont be hitting much with that thing.

[geneackley]

How much are you willing to spend ?? Do you want Schott or Deon ED Glass ??
You mentioned "a bit more reach". So what power range do you think you need ??
I have no problem shooting to 1000 yards with one of my Bushnell 6-24x50 Elites.


That's what I bought!!! 815 on sale at Midway!!! Just about perfect on paper.... lets see next week when it arrives.

[geneackley]

Sell that turkey Gene, and use the money to buy something worth having.
You just cant impress things to death, it takes actually hitting them in order to accomplish that.
And you wont be hitting much with that thing.

Buck,

Are you talking about the bolt action 50 cal Barrett M99 with a huge 32 inch barrel? Cause that thing is reputed to be THE MOST ACCURATE 50 cal rifle in the world!!!!!

But if you mean the cheap 16x SWFA scope... Again, its not fancy but the tracking is solid and quite up to Mil Specs (which I know often doesn't mean much but its better than chinese...

But indeed that scope was temporary ( in fact they all are and get replaced as soon as better optics come around ).

But I have also been seriously thinking about selling my Barrett. I have had it for 13 years and fired fewer than 150 rounds through it. If I sold it I could buy a couple top tier scopes with that money and free up a lot of room in my gun safe. And I still have about another 150 rounds that at this rate I will never shoot, clean once-fired brass, dies... everything including the mil spec type Pelican case. If I make up my mind, I will post it here in the proper section.

[Fuj']

Fuj, maybe you could tell us about ED glass, and how much of it is actually used by (ALL) scope makers in the building of a scope.
Lean over bub and ill sell you one with the very best glass. lol

Couple of years ago it really jacked up the prices of good scopes. It's fairly
common now. Some glass is just as good as the claimed ED glass. I have
a NF 15-55x52 Comp with claimed ED glass, and my Bushy's are right there
with it. Picked up a Burris 8-40x50 F-Class scope to put on my testing rifle.
For $850 the glass is also right up there.

[hamiltonkiler]

I always hear/read about glass quality.

All I’ve ever wanted is a nice clean reticle and turrets that move correctly.

I like shooting off the reticle but I also enjoy dialing. Especially since I’ve been into small calibers. .223 and 22lr.

My 300yd dope on my .22lr is 14mils
If the wind is stroking around I have to dial that around to get hits.

Yea a 1.5k scope is great but it’s not doing anything my 400$ swfa isn’t doing. Maybe messing with magnification and the turrets might feel better. That’s not a 1k value to me.

Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[yobuck]

Buck,

Are you talking about the bolt action 50 cal Barrett M99 with a huge 32 inch barrel? Cause that thing is reputed to be THE MOST ACCURATE 50 cal rifle in the world!!!!!

But if you mean the cheap 16x SWFA scope... Again, its not fancy but the tracking is solid and quite up to Mil Specs (which I know often doesn't mean much but its better than chinese...

But indeed that scope was temporary ( in fact they all are and get replaced as soon as better optics come around ).

But I have also been seriously thinking about selling my Barrett. I have had it for 13 years and fired fewer than 150 rounds through it. If I sold it I could buy a couple top tier scopes with that money and free up a lot of room in my gun safe. And I still have about another 150 rounds that at this rate I will never shoot, clean once-fired brass, dies... everything including the mil spec type Pelican case. If I make up my mind, I will post it here in the proper section.
Im talking about the rifle Gene, not the scope you have on it.
So you have shot 150 rounds, how happy have you been with the groups you got?
Would you enjoy shooting say a 10 shot group with it?
Do you think you would even be up to shooting a 10 shot group with it? lol
Recoil is a big issue with many people when talking about even the regular magnum cartridges.
Yet these things shoot bullets of 750 gr. with well over 200 grains of powder behind them.
I have several friends who are Williamsport record holding shooters and have invested huge sums in custom 50s on big Bat actions and they cant hit a deer with the things because of the recoil.
Five seasons with the thing and they have killed one deer that you could have easily killed with your 280, about 700 yards.
Another very good friend of mine watched this past season as they shot at one at about 900 and missed.
They only got the one shot before it ran off. He is also a very experienced shooter and long standing at Williamsport also.
He said just by watching Scott get ready you knew he was anticipating the huge recoil.
They told him they are already anticipating their next barrel, and it wont be a 50.
Another friend had the same smith build him one at the same time frame using the same components.
His reason was that they were missing deer with their 338x378 at the longer distances they werent capable of to begin with.
A relative of his told me that he was with them when they missed one numerous times at 1400, and it was obvious that they just couldnt handle that gun. The guy had heard there was a small buck hanging out on the hillside opposite our camp, and called me about trying to find it and shoot at it at about 600 for the practice. I told him that if we wished that buck dead he would already be dead as a result of one of the kids shooting it with a 308. lol
The relative i mentioned is a neibor about 1/4 mile down the road, and he and his son have a Barrett 50 and have shot it from our yard on several occaisions. Ive turned down each offer to shoot the thing, and havent been impressed by watching them shoot it either.
They enjoy that type of thing, they ride down to i believe Louisville KY. every couple years for the big full auto shoot fest.
I personally wouldnt go even if i lived there, so as they say different strokes for different folks.

[yobuck]

Couple of years ago it really jacked up the prices of good scopes. It's fairly
common now. Some glass is just as good as the claimed ED glass. I have
a NF 15-55x52 Comp with claimed ED glass, and my Bushy's are right there
with it. Picked up a Burris 8-40x50 F-Class scope to put on my testing rifle.
For $850 the glass is also right up there.
Well fuj the fact is that if you were to put 2 of the same scopes side by side on the same day, you probably wouldnt be able to pick out the one having ED glass. And the reason for that is that both scopes would have exactly the same glass except for only the inner element of the objective lens.
Thats it, thats all the ED glass used in any scope by any manufacturer.
Reason being that the ED glass isnt nearly as sturdy as standard glass and much more susceptable to damage when used in other areas.
You might detect some improvment in a first or last light situation, but otherwise no.
My late lifelong friend Jerry who died in a Jeep wreck while hunting with me, was a Kowa optics rep.
We spent hours upon hours comparing various optics at long range from the yard of our camp.
Ditto with all the top name spotting scopes, only the inner element of the objective is ED glass.
The eyepieces on all their models is the same eyepiece as for glass.
They can get by with advertising it because government marketing laws permit them doing it since some of the more expensive glass is in fact used.
So when you hear some guy claim he has the best because he paid more for the ED glass, know that he wouldnt have if he had compared them and knew the true facts.
Buy one like mine, you will love it just like i do. lol