Primer pockets

[Mr.Snerdly]

I had problems with some brands of Federal .223 brass and loose primer pockets. I use a Lee decapping tool and if I can push the primer out with just finger pressure the case goes in the scrap brass bucket. .


Maybe the brass is still usable. You can't push them out with the Lee tool.

Another thing I noticed, different brands of primers aren't exactly the same. The CCI primers definitely fit tighter than the Winchester. Maybe it doesn't happen all the time, maybe just varies from batch to batch but I can tell a difference on the ones I have.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Another thing I noticed, different brands of primers aren't exactly the same. The CCI primers definitely fit tighter than the Winchester.


In the years I have been reloading (13-14 years I think), I have only used 3 brands of primers. CCI winchester, and federal.
I have found CCI to always fit good. I have found that federal and win, always take very little effort to seat.
I had about 400-500 pieces of all once fired, matching headstamp 308 I was loading. I had 100 win left and decided to use them, and then the rest with cci. All the cci seated normally and felt good. The win, all seated very easily and felt like the brass had loose primer pockets.
I have found the same with federal primers. They always seat very easy, even in new brass.

This is why cci is my preferred primer in all calibers. However sometimes you have to take what you can get, and I have even had to supplement with some federal primers (large and small pistol) because they were available locally. While I much prefer cci, the federals do all still go bang.

[Stumpkiller]

I use CCI 400 (& 200) mostly because that is what I could get. And last time I ordered I got 5,000 of each size and have been treating them like gold lately. Hope I can restock.

I had a few perforated #200 primers - but that same load flattened the primer to the point of flush to the head with no gap so it was a hairy hot load (was seeing how little jump I could get away with . . . a little too little with that one!)

[tomme boy]

Yes it distorts the case head. But it works if you get it right. I only do it on hard to find and replace brass. I use the rcbs primer swage upper rod to push the case onto the bearing.

I now use the Lee APP primer swage with the large primer swage installed to do the same thing. I had over 200 350 legend cases that were in that first batch that had problems. I got the brass from grafs. Almost all had pockets that were too large to hold a primer. So I did this and have 5 loads on them so far without losing any.

[243winxb]

I have reloaded some of my 243 brass quite a few times now and have noticed the primers take almost no pressure to seat. Aside from this, everything looks to be in good shape. I use lighter powder charges (not the absolute lowest, a little less than half between min and max) and anneal after about 5 firings. Keep going until something else appears to tell you to retire them?

If you can set a primer on the bench and by hand, push a case onto the primer to seat it, its time to scrap the brass. Another sign is gas leaking around the primer. As said, a gas leak may damage the bolt face.

Your powder charge sounds like its mid-range, so brass should last a very long time? I have over 22 firing on Win & Rem brass in my two- 243 rifles.

[Mr.Snerdly]

I wonder if it isn't the Winchester primers more than the brass. Good to find out that others say they don't fit quite as tight as the CCI. If they ever become available again, that is what I will get.

I have nowhere near 22 firings on them, probably more like 10 on the oldest, most fired brass.

[Texas10]

If you look at the dimensional tolerances for cartridge case primer pockets and primers themselves, you'll find that primers can have as little as .001 interference fit. Any slight deviation in the manufacturing process can reduce that to almost a slip fit even in new brass.

Compounding that is the fact that primers are made with different thickness of the cup material, especially small rifle primers, and that too affects how it fits the pocket. More importantly leakage around the primer can damage the bolt face which is less of an issue with the Savage design because replacing the bolt head is a simple matter. Primers with thicker cup material such as the CCI 450 and BR-4 will often eliminate many issues. Winchester SRP's have a thinner cup material and will tend to crater or blank more easily, as well as seat with noticeably less force when using a hand primer.

I have solved a severe cratering and blanking issue in a new Savage 223 by replacing the firing pin. The original firing pin diameter was well below factory specs resulting in way too much clearance to the bolt head firing pin hole, allowing the primer cup material to flow into the bolt head hole even under reduced pressures from light loads.

As far as brass hardness goes, there are a lot of variables. Federal suffers from an undeserved reputation for soft brass. The fact is their 223 brass is very hard and will last for many dozens of loadings without primer pockets failing. The image posted above showing a thinner web is not indicative of current production according to my measurements, and I have many hundreds of Federal 223 cases all of which perform admirably. But their 308 brass, especially the Gold Medal Match brass is made deliberately soft, a design feature that ensures consistently accurate factory ammo by allowing the case to expand to fit the chamber. In my experience it can be reloaded 3 to 4 times at most before primer pockets are too loose for safe fit. Shooting a really hot load can reduce that to a single cycle before tossing it.

[tomme boy]

Federal brass is indeed soft. Sort of. They do not do a final strike to the head to harden the brass as this is a cost cutting measure. And speeds up production. They don't care if the brass is reloaded or not. I was told this by Rugers head ballistician for 30 years when I asked him about federal brass.