Is anyone shooting the new 6.5CM Bergers?????

[Kev1Doggy]

I was curious about the new 144 and 153.5 Bergers, anyone shooting them? I saw some available locally and was just wondering.

Kevin

[FireDuck401]

I have begun trying the 144 Hybrid Targets.
Initial results have been good.
I will check my notes, but I believe I am running 38.5gr of H4350.

[daved20319]

I just ran my first test batch with the 144 LR Hybrid and VV N555 powder. Velocities and SD's were excellent, but accuracy on target kind of sucked. That said, I was loading to book COAL, 2.795", and shooting at 100 yards. Next round I'll play with seating depth and extend my testing range to 200 yards, just in case it's an issue with "settling". Later.

Dave

[stanekjm]

Keep us updated because I am definitely interested in em. I am about out of my old Nosler CC 140s...

[Fuj']

Twist rate may be a factor for the 144's and most definetly with
the 153's. My 8 twist Criterion with 42 grains of Reloder 16 and
the 140 RDF out shot them all. I was surprised the 144's were
dismal. My real surprise was the bullet sort. They were all over the
map. Not to Berger standards. I'm wondering if I was sold a box of
seconds. As it is, I was not going to go thru an added expense of
a faster (7.5) twister to find out. The RDF's did there job. I no
longer work with the 6.5 with the bulk of my work in the 7mm/284
area.

[CFJunkie]

I have found that my 6.5 CM Berger bullets took a lot of tuning to get them to shoot their best.
But once I found the magic formula (especially where to seat them for my 3 different rifle barrels) they shot pretty well.
However, it took quite a lot of experimentation to find out where they produce the best performance.
I'm not sure it was worth the powder, bullets, and primers to figure it out.

My Sierras and Hornady bullets (even the 143 hornady ELD-Xs and 147 grain Hornady ELD-Ms) were pretty much right on with the initial loads in my 1:8 twist barrels.
I would expect that a 1:8 twist wiith the 144 gr Bergers would be quite accurate but the 153.5 gr Bergers might be dicey.
However, the superb performance of 77 grain Sierras in my .223 1:9 twist CZ and Savage barrels which everyone, including me, thought wouldn't stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel, made me conclude that the traditional stability calculators aren't the best predictors of performance, especially for high BC bullets.

[Robinhood]

I just ran my first test batch with the 144 LR Hybrid and VV N555 powder. Velocities and SD's were excellent, but accuracy on target kind of sucked. That said, I was loading to book COAL, 2.795", and shooting at 100 yards. Next round I'll play with seating depth and extend my testing range to 200 yards, just in case it's an issue with "settling". Later.

Dave

Dave, Do you anneal or check bullet Run Out?

[Txhillbilly]

I have found that my 6.5 CM Berger bullets took a lot of tuning to get them to shoot their best.
But once I found the magic formula (especially where to seat them for my 3 different rifle barrels) they shot pretty well.
However, it took quite a lot of experimentation to find out where they produce the best performance.
I'm not sure it was worth the powder, bullets, and primers to figure it out.

My Sierras and Hornady bullets (even the 143 hornady ELD-Xs and 147 grain Hornady ELD-Ms) were pretty much right on with the initial loads in my 1:8 twist barrels.
I would expect that a 1:8 twist wiith the 144 gr Bergers would be quite accurate but the 153.5 gr Bergers might be dicey.
However, the superb performance of 77 grain Sierras in my .223 1:9 twist CZ and Savage barrels which everyone, including me, thought wouldn't stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel, made me conclude that the traditional stability calculators aren't the best predictors of performance, especially for high BC bullets.

It isn't the weight of the bullet, it's the bearing surface length that determines if the bullet will be stabilized with a given twist rate.

I shoot a lot of 75gr BTHP and 77gr BTHP bullets out of a 1-9 twist Model 12 223, but the 75gr AMax & ELDM bullets don't shoot very well. It's because the bearing surface on those bullets require a faster twist rate in order to stabilize them correctly.
I also shoot 160gr Sierra Pro Hunter bullets (discontinued now) out of my 6.5-06 with a 1-8 twist barrel. I doubt that my 1-8 twist barrels on all my 6.5mm rifles will stabilize the Berger 153's.
When I run out of the 160gr Sierra's, I'll probably switch to the Woodleigh 160gr bullets for my 6.5-06 hunting loads.

[daved20319]

Dave, Do you anneal or check bullet Run Out?

These loads were with brand new Alpha brass and this was the first loading, but no, I don't anneal (yet :rolleyes:). I also don't check run out, not really seeing a need at this point. I tend to avoid the things that cause run out, I expand case necks with a mandrel rather than the sizing button/decapper, I'm using a Forster micrometer bullet seater, and I'm using quality bullets. I've chosen to always full length resize, and I use a Redding resizing die. I may have issues with my loads, but I don't think it's run out, and even if it was, I'm not sure I could do much about it. Why do you ask?

Dave

[CFJunkie]

Txhillbilly,

I agree that the bearing surface is an important factor in accuracy and probably effects the spin rate of the bullet so it should impact stability.
The shape also changes the BC so the two measures are related, but not directly.
Other factors also effect the BC.

Many of the older design bullets with tangent shapes versus the newer secant bullet shapes have different bearing surfaces and don't shoot as well for me.
Case in point for me was the old design 140 grain SMKs that shot poorly in my 6.5mm CM while the newer 142 grain SMKs shot great.
I found that there was a difference in the bearing surface of the two bullets.

[stomp442]

I have just begun initial load development with the 144s in a 6.5-284 I just built with a 26" Shilen #5 match on a Trued Remington 700. I found a couple pounds of N565 that I have heard good things about but have never used before. Load data is sparse but my initial groups during break in were well under an inch.

[Gavin_UT]

Hi. Bryan Litz book "Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets" lists all of the bullets Applied Ballistics has shot with their doppler radar setup. Each bullet has a best, worst and nominal stability factor for twist rate.
One I was looking at is a Cautreucio .264 155g ULD that looks like it will stabilize with a 1:8 twist. Has anyone shot theese? Unfortunatley the book version I have does not have the Berger 144 or 153.5. Bergers site recomends a minimum twist of 1:7.5 for a stability factor of 1.58. just over the 1.5 SG needed.

[Fuj']

Bob Cautreucio passed away a few years back. Bullets are no longer
available.