Vortex

[geneackley]

[QUOTE=geneackley;486972]Just because I don't buy the HYPE doesn't mean that I am on a "personal vendetta". I just hate lies and liars (and Democrats- but I repeat myself)!.

The obvious truth is that on the surface, Vortex seems to offer you quite a lot... But the fact that we are even having this conversation PROVES that (for many people at least) these promises are skin deep and simply do not hold up to real world use.

So again I would much rather deal with a company that DOESN'T promise you the moon than with Vortex.

That you have had great luck with yours? Good for you!!! But way too many testimonials from way too many people for way too many years have made it clear that there are real issues with this company. So please forgive me if I don't want to take a chance with my hard earned money... or life in an extreme case!!!

For me, its gotta work every time. I am just picky that way.

Take care.[/QUOTE
The Vortex rep told me to torque the rings to 16 to 18 inch pounds. I have an old USA made beam type inch pound torque wrench so I dug it out and torqued my Burris signature Zee rings to the recommended specification, and I haven't had a problem, sorry.
Vortex isn't the best scope but at their price range, they offer a good scope loaded with features that lot of people own and are happy with, you can't deny that.

I don't deny that there are people happy with their Vortex scopes. As someone who has never owned one, I admit that I am not familiar with any of their different models. It is reasonable to assume that some are going to be better than others. Some might have just had a bad run of glass or brass gears or quality control during a time when they were manufactured, - and were soon afterwards fixed; Like I said, I admit that I don't know.

But since there is a whole wide world out there of scope manufacturers that DON'T SEEM TO HAVE THE "BAD VORTEX REPUTATION", why should I take a chance?

I am sure that Afghanistan is a very beautiful country this time of year... But its probably not the smartest move to go there on vacation right now. Likewise, sometimes a scope or a country have a certain reputation for a very good reason...

So just in case, I will visit the Grand Canyon this year instead!!!;)

[justpassinthru]

[QUOTE=justpassinthru;486980]

I don't deny that there are people happy with their Vortex scopes. As someone who has never owned one, I admit that I am not familiar with any of their different models. It is reasonable to assume that some are going to be better than others. Some might have just had a bad run of glass or brass gears or quality control during a time when they were manufactured, - and were soon afterwards fixed; Like I said, I admit that I don't know.

But since there is a whole wide world out there of scope manufacturers that DON'T SEEM TO HAVE THE "BAD VORTEX REPUTATION", why should I take a chance?

I am sure that Afghanistan is a very beautiful country this time of year... But its probably not the smartest move to go there on vacation right now. Likewise, sometimes a scope or a country have a certain reputation for a very good reason...

So just in case, I will visit the Grand Canyon this year instead!!!;)Let me get this straight. You, having never owned a Vortex product, feel compelled to join this thread and argue with people who actually DO own their products and are happy with them? Unlike some, I mounted my scopes according to the instructions, it doesn't slip in the rings and everything inside works as designed.
Many of those having problems know more than the people who designed and made these scopes, so they refuse to follow the mounting instructions causing the internal parts to bind, and that is supposed to make ALL Vortex scopes junk and totally worthy of this bad reputation you seem hellbent on adding too based solely on nothing but what you've heard.
Please slowly read the remainder of this post because there's something else I want you to hear.
I have a Gen 2, 5x25x50 Viper PST on my 260. This is an illuminated MOA reticle, FFP scope with zero stop which I paid $900 for a few years ago when the gen 2 was first released.
I have this rifle zeroed at 200 yards and the zero stop is set there. I can measure the distance to a target then using the bullet drop app on my phone, dial in the desired setting on my scope, and hit what I'm shooting at. Then, a quick spin of the elevation turret back against the zero stop takes me back to my 200 yard zero.
This system has proven to be both repeatable and accurate, does what I wanted and again, I'm happy with it same as all my other Vortex products.
There are many things that can affect the point of impact of a bullet. Some are easy to see and others not so easy, but the scope usually gets the blame whether at fault or not.
Hopefully, if you actually read what I just typed you will add it to your knowledge about Vortex products, but I strongly suspect you will not.

[yobuck]

Well ill be the first to admit that the old cliche about old dogs learning new tricks is in fact true.
Another fact is that many old dogs arent really interested in learning any new tricks.
Especially when it comes to something as basic as mounting a scope onto a rifle.

[geneackley]

[QUOTE=geneackley;486999]Let me get this straight. You, having never owned a Vortex product, feel compelled to join this thread and argue with people who actually DO own their products and are happy with them? Unlike some, I mounted my scopes according to the instructions, it doesn't slip in the rings and everything inside works as designed.
Many of those having problems know more than the people who designed and made these scopes, so they refuse to follow the mounting instructions causing the internal parts to bind, and that is supposed to make ALL Vortex scopes junk and totally worthy of this bad reputation you seem hellbent on adding too based solely on nothing but what you've heard.
Please slowly read the remainder of this post because there's something else I want you to hear.
I have a Gen 2, 5x25x50 Viper PST on my 260. This is an illuminated MOA reticle, FFP scope with zero stop which I paid $900 for a few years ago when the gen 2 was first released.
I have this rifle zeroed at 200 yards and the zero stop is set there. I can measure the distance to a target then using the bullet drop app on my phone, dial in the desired setting on my scope, and hit what I'm shooting at. Then, a quick spin of the elevation turret back against the zero stop takes me back to my 200 yard zero.
This system has proven to be both repeatable and accurate, does what I wanted and again, I'm happy with it same as all my other Vortex products.
There are many things that can affect the point of impact of a bullet. Some are easy to see and others not so easy, but the scope usually gets the blame whether at fault or not.
Hopefully, if you actually read what I just typed you will add it to your knowledge about Vortex products, but I strongly suspect you will not.

Well I must confess that I have never done cocaine or meta-amphetamines or crack either... but somehow I seem to be smart enough to intuit that it probably wouldn't be a smart move.

Again, WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE complain about Vortex for so many years, its enough for any open minded intelligent person to at least be concerned.

But maybe I just don't process information like you do? After all some people DO start taking drugs despite ample evidence of how they destroy lives!!!!!

Go figure; Different strokes for different folks they say!

But I am very happy that your Vortex products have worked out so well for you, honest!!! I just simply don't trust them given their history. Its no more complicated than that.

Furthermore, they are so many other more reputable brands out there to chose from, that there is isnt even ANY REAL NEED to take that risk... So I wont!

Maybe its just cause I am old and cautious... Old age makes you that way.

Have a great day Justpassin!

[justpassinthru]

So me owning a Vortex product is now being likened to taking drugs?

I guarantee that if you shot any of my rifles with their Vortex scopes, you would come away with a different point of view.

Hands on experience does that and is a much preferred way to form an opinion than relying on internet B/S.

I'm done here.

[geneackley]

Well ill be the first to admit that the old cliche about old dogs learning new tricks is in fact true.
Another fact is that many old dogs arent really interested in learning any new tricks.
Especially when it comes to something as basic as mounting a scope onto a rifle.


I am with you Yobuck;

If a scope can't be "soldier proofed " enough on the most basic level as to able to take the most normal life-long universal traditional method of scope mounting, well then, its not gonna inspire me much confidence.

AND CONFIDENCE in your equipment is paramount. In fact, thats why we pay the big bucks for something; We need it to work when it matters. Period.

[geneackley]

So me owning a Vortex product is now being likened to taking drugs?

I guarantee that if you shot any of my rifles with their Vortex scopes, you would come away with a different point of view.

Hands on experience does that and is a much preferred way to form an opinion than relying on internet B/S.

I'm done here.

Dear Justpassin:

I am sure that I would love your optics. Honestly! I know that Vortex scopes are wonderful for their price point when they work!!!

My problem is that I would always wonder when and how they were going to fail me!!!!. I JUST DO NOT TRUST THEM... nor ( in fact it would seem ) does the MANUFACTURER... or Vortex wouldn't brag so much on their lifetime warranty!!!

And you are free to characterize the opinions of hundred that I have read online as "Internet BS"... But in my opinion, most of them are bound to be real people expressing their thoughts just like we are doing here today.

I mean, by that standard, is what you say BS too???

I think we can both be right; Vortex works for YOU today, but I need it to work for me tomorrow... and given its reputation, I cant believe that it will; Simple.

We obviously have different needs.

Take care my friend.

Gene

[Txhillbilly]

Man, This thread sure went into the toilet!

If you like Vortex scopes, Good for you.
If you don't, Good for you, also.
That's what so great about being an American, we have the choice to buy what we like and want.

Buy a scope that fits your usage, in the price range that you can afford, along with all the features that you want in a scope.

[geneackley]

Man, This thread sure went into the toilet!

If you like Vortex scopes, Good for you.
If you don't, Good for you, also.
That's what so great about being an American, we have the choice to buy what we like and want.

Buy a scope that fits your usage, in the price range that you can afford, along with all the features that you want in a scope.


I think we were arguing about different things. Some think Vortex scopes are great... and THEY ARE while they work.

I was talking about a scope I couldn't quite trust. We were both looking at the same thing but with different CONSIDERATIONS in mind.

Maybe one day he will spend thousands of dollars on a dream hunt to Alaska... and just when he has this huge trophy moose in view, his vortex scope will fail; Yeah, Vortex will fix it for free... but the moose will be gone and the vacation will be ruined. That point seems harder to appreciate for some...

[geneackley]

Man, This thread sure went into the toilet!

If you like Vortex scopes, Good for you.
If you don't, Good for you, also.
That's what so great about being an American, we have the choice to buy what we like and want.

Buy a scope that fits your usage, in the price range that you can afford, along with all the features that you want in a scope.

Tex, I have been thinking about what you said here about the thread "going into the toilet"... I guess that's a matter of perspective; I CERTAINLY didn't get upset... but I do apologize if anyone else was by my comments.

But I think its fair to say that many Vortex owners (at least in my limited experience with them) seem to have an almost "religious faith" in their chosen brand... A faith that given the extensive number of warranty returns for repair (just google it) seems poorly placed TO ME!!!

But in the name of "Religious Tolerance" and peaceful co-existance, I will henceforth try not to offend the followers of the VORTEX FAITH by pointing out the obvious reliability issues with their scopes.

I will however continue to quietly not want to bet on a Chinese scope when there are so many other solid brands out there without the questionable reputation; If that makes me a "Vortexian Apostatatic ANUS", then so be it.


Good evening to everyone!!!!;)

[Txhillbilly]

Tex, I have been thinking about what you said here about the thread "going into the toilet"... I guess that's a matter of perspective; I CERTAINLY didn't get upset... but I do apologize if anyone else was by my comments.

But I think its fair to say that many Vortex owners (at least in my limited experience with them) seem to have an almost "religious faith" in their chosen brand... A faith that given the extensive number of warranty returns for repair (just google it) seems poorly placed TO ME!!!

But in the name of "Religious Tolerance" and peaceful co-existance, I will henceforth try not to offend the followers of the VORTEX FAITH by pointing out the obvious reliability issues with their scopes.

I will however continue to quietly not want to bet on a Chinese scope when there are so many other solid brands out there without the questionable reputation; If that makes me a "Vortexian Apostatatic ANUS", then so be it.


Good evening to everyone!!!!;)

Every brand has fan boy's that will defend them to the death. Even the guy's that have never owned a high $$$$ scope will defend why they only buy cheap scopes.
A lot of it has to do with brands that guy's were raised up using by their father's and grand father's, families and friends. Some of it has to do with financial reasons.

Most people that praise low end scopes only use it for hunting once a year. They never need a scope that has well built internals that get used hard and adjusted constantly like someone that shoots long range or in competitions. As long as their cheap scopes holds zero for a few shots each year, it's the best thing since sliced bread. Just don't try to tell me it's as good as a high end scope - because it's not.

[J.Baker]

I don't care what brand of optic you pick, they all can and likely will have issues at some point.

Everyone used to swear by Leupold, now a great many people swear at them. I know a LOT of competitive shooters who have had to send their higher end Leupy's back to the factory to be repaired/replaced because they failed. Some stopped holding zero, some no longer (or never) tracked accurately, and some had reticle failure (came loose & rotated or glue failure on the crosshair itself).

I know a handful of people who have had to send their Nightforce scopes back in for repair for one reason or another - me being one of them due to the parallax adjustment being way out of whack.

Back when they were still making them, it was pretty much a given that after 2-3 years the variable power Weaver target scopes would suddenly just take a crap on you and no longer hold zero.

Something else to keep in mind is that the more scopes a company sells the more frequently you'll hear about bad ones just because there are a lot more of them out there being used. This doesn't necessarily mean they're more prone to problems than another brand. In terms of percentage, the number of failures in relation to total units sold could actually be lower for that brand you frequently see complaints about simply due to sales volume. Without hard sales and warranty repair numbers from all makers we'll never know - but we do know the Vortex brand has been aggressively marketed since the companies inception and many of the other new brands we've seen hit the market in recent years have adopted that same business model. It will be interesting to see if in a few years those other new companies that are currently being touted as "the next best thing" see their reputations go down hill as their market percentage and sales volume increases just like we've seen happen with Vortex's in recent years.

[efm77]

I don't care what brand of optic you pick, they all can and likely will have issues at some point.

Everyone used to swear by Leupold, now a great many people swear at them. I know a LOT of competitive shooters who have had to send their higher end Leupy's back to the factory to be repaired/replaced because they failed. Some stopped holding zero, some no longer (or never) tracked accurately, and some had reticle failure (came loose & rotated or glue failure on the crosshair itself).

I know a handful of people who have had to send their Nightforce scopes back in for repair for one reason or another - me being one of them due to the parallax adjustment being way out of whack.

Back when they were still making them, it was pretty much a given that after 2-3 years the variable power Weaver target scopes would suddenly just take a crap on you and no longer hold zero.

Something else to keep in mind is that the more scopes a company sells the more frequently you'll hear about bad ones just because there are a lot more of them out there being used. This doesn't necessarily mean they're more prone to problems than another brand. In terms of percentage, the number of failures in relation to total units sold could actually be lower for that brand you frequently see complaints about simply due to sales volume. Without hard sales and warranty repair numbers from all makers we'll never know - but we do know the Vortex brand has been aggressively marketed since the companies inception and many of the other new brands we've seen hit the market in recent years have adopted that same business model. It will be interesting to see if in a few years those other new companies that are currently being touted as "the next best thing" see their reputations go down hill as their market percentage and sales volume increases just like we've seen happen with Vortex's in recent years.


This is a very good point. I too have had my skepticisms about Vortex, but every manufacturer can and does make a lemon here and there. It's just the nature of the beast with anything that's mass produced. One thing that always cracks me up about peoples' expectations of scopes is that they expect it to last 3 lifetimes and never hiccup. But yet with every other part of the gun, they'll replace parts as they wear out without a question. The age old saying about barrels being like tires, you eventually have to replace them. But yet they expect to be able to twist the turrets on the scope a million times a year, throw it off a cliff, and run over it with a tank and it still some how should magically never wear out. Sorry to get off on a tangent there a little but the scope discussion gets me to thinking about that almost every time.

[geneackley]

This is a very good point. I too have had my skepticisms about Vortex, but every manufacturer can and does make a lemon here and there. It's just the nature of the beast with anything that's mass produced. One thing that always cracks me up about peoples' expectations of scopes is that they expect it to last 3 lifetimes and never hiccup. But yet with every other part of the gun, they'll replace parts as they wear out without a question. The age old saying about barrels being like tires, you eventually have to replace them. But yet they expect to be able to twist the turrets on the scope a million times a year, throw it off a cliff, and run over it with a tank and it still some how should magically never wear out. Sorry to get off on a tangent there a little but the scope discussion gets me to thinking about that almost every time.

I think that when you try to mass produce such feature rich scopes as Vortex while at the same time trying to make them as cheaply as possible, you are asking for trouble. A SOLID and QUALITY scope simply can not be built so cheaply; Its counter intuitive; Something has to give... and in the end, in the case of VORTEX, it often does!!!!

It's really no more complicated than that.

But fan boys will be fan boys; Basic logic, engineering and the number of scopes returned for service versus the number of scopes produced be damned!!!

Of course historically we don't always make the best choices anyway... That's how we got VHS instead of Beta, Farenheit over Celsius, SAE over Metric, and Biden over Trump!

THE HORROR!!!!!

But we do get what we deserve!!!;)

[efm77]

I think that when you try to mass produce such feature rich scopes as Vortex while at the same time trying to make them as cheaply as possible, you are asking for trouble. A SOLID and QUALITY scope simply can not be built so cheaply; Its counter intuitive; Something has to give... and in the end, in the case of VORTEX, it often does!!!!

It's really no more complicated than that.

But fan boys will be fan boys; Basic logic, engineering and the number of scopes returned for service versus the number of scopes produced be damned!!!

Of course historically we don't always make the best choices anyway... That's how we got VHS instead of Beta, Farenheit over Celsius, SAE over Metric, and Biden over Trump!

THE HORROR!!!!!

But we do get what we deserve!!!;)

Totally agree. In my reference about things wearing out, I never meant that there aren't still good quality scopes that should last a long time. I should have clarified that. I also believe in you get what you pay for. I used to skimp on scopes but not anymore. I can't afford $2k+ scopes but definitely don't buy the cheapies anymore.

[geneackley]

Totally agree. In my reference about things wearing out, I never meant that there aren't still good quality scopes that should last a long time. I should have clarified that. I also believe in you get what you pay for. I used to skimp on scopes but not anymore. I can't afford $2k+ scopes but definitely don't buy the cheapies anymore.


I buy the "cheapies" like SWFAs... BUT I DON'T EXPECT THE MOON FROM THEM!!!!! By focusing on fixed optics and a very solid but very basic No Frills designs, I get what I pay for... And in the case of SWFAs, probably even more, since its was once a US NAVY contract ( thus a mil spec item), and made with Japanese glass, not Chinese... a big plus to me.

And you can't argue with the $300 price tag... At least I dont anyway!

[efm77]

I buy the "cheapies" like SWFAs... BUT I DON'T EXPECT THE MOON FROM THEM EITHER!!!!! By focusing on fixed optics and a very solid but very basic No Frills designs, I get what I pay for... And in the case of SWFAs, probably even more, since its was once a US NAVY contract ( thus a mil spec item), and made with Japanese glass, not Chinese... a big plus to me.

And you can't argue with the $300 price tag... At least I dont anyway!

Yes there are some good bargains with good quality scopes in the $300-500 range.

[geneackley]

https://youtu.be/WPP-DYhEk_c

[Downwindtracker2]

I almost bought a couple of 3-9x40 Vipers, Cabelas had them on sale for $325 Canadian. They sold out. It seems like my famous luck held. chuckle.

I've shot Farky class out to 600 yards on our local military range, and won my class. I don't believe in long range hunting.

The most important thing in hunting scopes is reliability . I'm talking about maintaining the point of aim . To check that you need to know your rifle, it's load and the group size . Your bench technique has to be consistent. No bad days allowed. If the group size opens, it's time to mail the scope in. How often during a hunt can you do that ? If it does that at the range, can you trust it when it comes back ? Back up rifles come in handy.

When Leupold upgraded it's Vari-X II to VX-2 , my hunting partner got a deal. He picked up a couple of 2-7 . Great little scope . Light , good optics, the right size, a lower priced VX-3 2.5-8 . They would only last 2 boxes of 50 bullets . Which most hunters would never go through. He warrantied them and then sold them.