stripping a bolt to set headspace or case clearance

[mikeinco]

i am not new to rifles
i am not new to setting headspace in non savage rifles
i am not new to setting up dies to get the correct case clearance for a given chamber.bolt.

BUT
THE SAVAGE BOLT AIN'T THE SAME.
most know to set savage headspace with a nut you need to:
1) strip the bolt.
remove the ejector....
use a cut off case head and a c clamp to compress the ejector.
tap out the pin, release the c clamp slowly ,collect the ejector and spring.

2) remove the firing pin and spring
disassemble the bolt and reassemble without firing pin assembly.

but there is still some pressure on the bolt when closing!
the wavy washer/spring behind the bolt head is applying pressure we do not want.
if you take out the washer, nothing holds the bolt head pin in place.
simple wrap a single layer of thin tape(cellophane) around the bolt body to keep the pin in place.
now you can close the bolt with zero spring interference.
you can feel touch or not on a headspace gauge.
you can feel resistance from a case that is not sized enough.

FOR ALL I KNOW you all know this.
have never seen it in print.

[mnbogboy2]

i am not new to rifles
i am not new to setting headspace in non savage rifles
i am not new to setting up dies to get the correct case clearance for a given chamber.bolt.

BUT
THE SAVAGE BOLT AIN'T THE SAME.
most know to set savage headspace with a nut you need to:
1) strip the bolt.
remove the ejector....
use a cut off case head and a c clamp to compress the ejector.
tap out the pin, release the c clamp slowly ,collect the ejector and spring.

2) remove the firing pin and spring
disassemble the bolt and reassemble without firing pin assembly.

but there is still some pressure on the bolt when closing!
the wavy washer/spring behind the bolt head is applying pressure we do not want.
if you take out the washer, nothing holds the bolt head pin in place.
simple wrap a single layer of thin tape(cellophane) around the bolt body to keep the pin in place.
now you can close the bolt with zero spring interference.
you can feel touch or not on a headspace gauge.
you can feel resistance from a case that is not sized enough.

FOR ALL I KNOW you all know this.
have never seen it in print.

Good explanation, i might add that this method of stripping the bolt can be utitilized to check cbto (ie: the Wheeler method often used with Rem style bolts). This works provided that you remove the detent balls in the rear baffle also. The baffle can then be lightly "taped" to the reciever to prevent it from flopping around during test process. The rear baffle is still required to "feel" the PE "clicking" during the test process.

You can also remove the cocking sleeve & cocking pin and re-insert the firing pin to hold the bolt head retaining pin in lieu of the tape in part 2 in the above post.

[sharpshooter]

You don't have to do any of that......

[jpx2rk]

I just size the fired case(s) to where I get easy bolt closure. I usually have sub moa groups if I do my part.

[Fuj']

You don't have to do any of that......

I agree with Sharpshooter 110%.....Life is so much simpler when
you don't complicate it.

I just relieve the back of the head space gage to clear the ejector pin
then go about my business. I do the same with my split cases to find
the lands.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

"You don't have to do any of that......"
Nuf said!!
The bolt is cocked when you open it so no firing pin in the way.
The extractor snaps over the case head and keeps it in contact with the bolt face.
If you think the ejector rod can apply enough force to cock the case sideways in the chamber, you've got chamber problems.:o

[Txhillbilly]

Some guy's just like to complicate things, and do more work than is needed.
I've built and headspaced dozen's of rifles over the years, and never once took apart the bolt to do it.

[mikeinco]

i would say 99% of real gunsmiths would disagree with your process,
i do not care what you do .
but precision shooters and precision ammo crafters do this.
things to consider it you want to improve


Some guy's just like to complicate things, and do more work than is needed.

I've built and headspaced dozen's of rifles over the years, and never once took apart the bolt to do it.

[gbflyer]

I strip the bolt to set headspace also. I spent too many years with my hands in the cold Pacific. I don’t have a good feel for it otherwise. I like to see the bolt close on the go gauge with just gravity. Lots of successful headspacing done the other way too. No enemies here.

[mikeinco]

i discovered that the bolt will fall free in the last 60-45 degrees even with the baffle and detent in place.
and yes to the wheeler method


Good explanation, i might add that this method of stripping the bolt can be utitilized to check cbto (ie: the Wheeler method often used with Rem style bolts). This works provided that you remove the detent balls in the rear baffle also. The baffle can then be lightly "taped" to the reciever to prevent it from flopping around during test process. The rear baffle is still required to "feel" the PE "clicking" during the test process.

You can also remove the cocking sleeve & cocking pin and re-insert the firing pin to hold the bolt head retaining pin in lieu of the tape in part 2 in the above post.

[Fuj']

i would say 99% of real gunsmiths would disagree with your process,
i do not care what you do .
but precision shooters and precision ammo crafters do this.

Sharp Shooter is all that and more. Show some respect.

[mikeinco]

pull your head out and look at who i was talking to.
hill billy

CONTEXT might be a little tuff for you.

hint : it is copied in the message



Sharp Shooter is all that and more. Show some respect.

[olddav]

You can strip the bolt if you want and any other thing that makes you fell better about your setup. I however don’t see a need and will continue to set set the headspace with an assembled bolt, unless someone comes up with an explanation as to why stripping the bolt is required.

[charlie b]

I realize I can be a bit 'handicapped' being a mechanical engineer, but, all that work seems counter productive. I can see doing all that to set a full length case size die, but, not headspace, unless you do not use both a GO and NO-GO set.

The gauges are designed to be used with an assembled bolt, whatever type that is. Either the bolt closes or it doesn't. Ejectors or extractors will not affect this. Removing them will make closing the bolt easier.

The end result is the same either way...you have a chamber within the SAAMI spec (or whatever spec the gauges were made to).

If you are intent on having a minimum or maximum spec chamber, or you are only using a GO gauge, then all this will probably make a difference.

Is there some other reason to go to all that trouble?

[Robinhood]

i discovered that the bolt will fall free in the last 60-45 degrees even with the baffle and detent in place.
and yes to the wheeler method

I have headspaced rifles in a variety of ways. Some the majority of gunsmiths would frown upon. Some the way snobs say it should be done. All worked perfectly. If you believe that you can headspace better than I can you are full of yourself. If you know how to measure Cases and Cartridges, you will never let a chamber that is .001" too much or too little headspace bother you.

I challenge you to show empirical data that a chamber that shoots handloaded ammo made for that chamber is effected by such marginal differences. I contend the chamber itself is much more critical. I contend that if you fall withing case breech protrusion standards that it will not affect crap. I need details and proof that .001" makes a difference. Assertions and theory's are nothing more than that.


I conntend "you dont need to do any of that"

When someone has such conviction with obvious lack of experience, I believe they don't have the experience they claim because they are doing it the way they read how to do it not how they worked their way through it. Experience is not doing it the youtube way, it is when you try all the ways and have found out the way that works is when you have experience.

It is nothing like being a world champion at an event that weather canceled it and one other guy and you show up and have some fun ....but you still think you are a world champion.

l
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l
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V

[mikeinco]

that is 100% wrong
plain and simple.



The gauges are designed to be used with an assembled bolt, whatever type that is. E

[mikeinco]

and you did not show up either.
it's real life
you are just jealous...lol
( it is a new organization and new classes...but i still won)

my national championship was against the best shooters in the usa.
i posted for those that are interested in improving their skills.



I have headspaced rifles in a variety of ways. Some the majority of gunsmiths would frown upon. Some the way snobs say it should be done. All worked perfectly. If you believe that you can headspace better than I can you are full of yourself. If you know how to measure Cases and Cartridges, you will never let a chamber that is .001" too much or too little headspace bother you.

I challenge you to show empirical data that a chamber that shoots handloaded ammo made for that chamber is effected by such marginal differences. I contend the chamber itself is much more critical. I contend that if you fall withing case breech protrusion standards that it will not affect crap. I need details and proof that .001" makes a difference. Assertions and theory's are nothing more than that.


I conntend "you dont need to do any of that"

When someone has such conviction with obvious lack of experience, I believe they don't have the experience they claim because they are doing it the way they read how to do it not how they worked their way through it. Experience is not doing it the youtube way, it is when you try all the ways and have found out the way that works is when you have experience.

It is nothing like being a world champion at an event that weather canceled it and one other guy and you show up and have some fun ....but you still think you are a world champion.

l
l
l
l
V

[ninner]

and you did not show up either.
it's real life
you are just jealous...lol
( it is a new organization and new classes...but i still won)

my national championship was against the best shooters in the usa.
i posted for those that are interested in improving their skills.

Wow a douche bag on the internet, I’ve never seen that before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mnbogboy2]

I certainly misread the original post. Stripping the savage bolt for headspace is un-necessary, i have never done it and have done hundreds of them.
Stripping the savage bolt to check distance to the lands or case clearance to replicate stripping a remington bolt (ie: Wheeler method) is what my post was referring to. It may be useful for setting the headspace on a shouldered barrel but then that would infringe on the "brotherhood of the barrelnut"!

Sorry for my misunderstanding. First i thought it was Covid making tempers & egos flare up. Adding the election to the hoop-a-law certainly hasnt helped.

[Robinhood]

i posted for those that are interested in improving their skills.
I actually feel this is true. Telling people that have been working on savages for years with no problems that they are wrong is insulting and a fast way to loose credibility. Attacking sharpshooter is another way to loose credibility. He has taught a lot of people a lot of things if they are willing to listen....or should I say read.