Sizing die setup

[nksmfamjp]

I just want to know if any folks have done any testing with this and if Savage Rifles would be any different.

i hear a lot of folks FL bumping fired -0.002”.

Then there are the neck sizers with no shoulder bump.

Then there are the hunters at about 0.003” bump.

I had good results with fired -0.0015”.

From Alex Wheeler’s YouTube channel:
https://youtu.be/WfWS7R1CdZI

I'm just wondering what folks do and if they have tested to get to that point or are just doing what seems right.

[Ted_Feasel]

I just want to know if any folks have done any testing with this and if Savage Rifles would be any different.

i hear a lot of folks FL bumping fired -0.002”.

Then there are the neck sizers with no shoulder bump.

Then there are the hunters at about 0.003” bump.

I had good results with fired -0.0015”.

From Alex Wheeler’s YouTube channel:
https://youtu.be/WfWS7R1CdZI

I'm just wondering what folks do and if they have tested to get to that point or are just doing what seems right.On my bolt rifles I neck size only .002 shoulder bump (about every 4 loads do A FL). Aneal every firing, my gas gun brass gets FL with .005 setback.. seems to work out good for me.. btw for neck size and bump I use hornady bushing die for FL I use forster

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[bigedp51]

Rifle chambers and resizing dies vary in size and you do not need to set the die up per its directions. Meaning the die can be adjusted up and down for a custom fit for your chamber.

The general thumb rule for shoulder bump is .001 to .003 for a bolt action and .003 to .006 for pumps and semi-autos. The quality of the brass and its construction governs its strength and elastic limits.

The .308 cases below were fired in a brand new Savage rifle with the full length die making hard contact with the shell holder with press cam over. And the chart at the bottom shows when the case started to stretch and thin in the base web area and when the case failed and seperated.

https://i.imgur.com/TDwPD1Q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XEuny9C.jpg

The SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing below lists headspace as min and max with .010 between the two. And a new .308 rifle is setup with GO and NO-GO gauges has .003 between these two gauges. Meaning a used older rifle has .007 wear before it fails a field gauge.


https://i.imgur.com/L6eq7Cc.jpg

Bottom line, if you are practicing at the range or shooting benchrest .001 shoulder bump should be OK. "BUT" if you are hunting a Tyrannosaurus Rex then .003 to .005 shoulder bump would be much better. Any information you get in a reloading forum is "ball park" for your rifle and the brass you are using. So again your chamber and resizing die varies in size and your brass will tell you what it likes.

Below the amount of shoulder bump will be your head clearance with a chambered cartridge and how far the case will stretch to contact the bolt face. And as long as you do not allow the case to stretch beyond its elastic limits the cases will last much longer when reloaded.

https://i.imgur.com/HK76WCp.jpg

The animated image below at the yellow and red areas shows the where the maximum stress on the case is located. And a case with .001 shoulder bump during sizing will last longer than a case with .006 shoulder bump. Meaning less shoulder bump is easier on your brass "BUT" if you are hunting a Tyrannosaurus Rex more wiggle room in the chamber is to your advantage.

https://i.imgur.com/Cne2IGF.gif

Below three types of Forster .308 resizing dies and they vary in diameter and shoulder location.

https://i.imgur.com/gFCObJR.png

[Ted_Feasel]

Rifle chambers and resizing dies vary in size and you do not need to set the die up per its directions. Meaning the die can be adjusted up and down for a custom fit for your chamber.

The general thumb rule for shoulder bump is .001 to .003 for a bolt action and .003 to .006 for pumps and semi-autos. The quality of the brass and its construction governs its strength and elastic limits.

The .308 cases below were fired in a brand new Savage rifle with the full length die making hard contact with the shell holder with press cam over. And the chart at the bottom shows when the case started to stretch and thin in the base web area and when the case failed and seperated.

https://i.imgur.com/TDwPD1Q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XEuny9C.jpg

The SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawing below lists headspace as min and max with .010 between the two. And a new .308 rifle is setup with GO and NO-GO gauges has .003 between these two gauges. Meaning a used older rifle has .007 wear before it fails a field gauge.


https://i.imgur.com/L6eq7Cc.jpg

Bottom line, if you are practicing at the range or shooting benchrest .001 shoulder bump should be OK. "BUT" if you are hunting a Tyrannosaurus Rex then .003 to .005 shoulder bump would be much better. Any information you get in a reloading forum is "ball park" for your rifle and the brass you are using. So again your chamber and resizing die varies in size and your brass will tell you what it likes.

Below the amount of shoulder bump will be your head clearance with a chambered cartridge and how far the case will stretch to contact the bolt face. And as long as you do not allow the case to stretch beyond its elastic limits the cases will last much longer when reloaded.

https://i.imgur.com/HK76WCp.jpg

The animated image below at the yellow and red areas shows the where the maximum stress on the case is located. And a case with .001 shoulder bump during sizing will last longer than a case with .006 shoulder bump. Meaning less shoulder bump is easier on your brass "BUT" if you are hunting a Tyrannosaurus Rex more wiggle room in the chamber is to your advantage.

https://i.imgur.com/Cne2IGF.gif

Below three types of Forster .308 resizing dies and they vary in diameter and shoulder location.

https://i.imgur.com/gFCObJR.pngNice info and animations.. the order of failures has a few surprises doesnt it:)

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[yobuck]

Back in the dark BC ages, (before computers) and of coarse Algores creation called the internet, most of us were far more ignorant of the proper ways of doing things.
Annealing cases is a prime example of that, as untill very recently most of us didnt even know what it was.
But now were led to believe that it has to be done every time we reload a case if we want good accuracy.
And where did that information come from?
Well the internet of coarse, it actually isnt necessary to prove things anymore so long as we can read what somebody on the internet thinks.
Target shooters, at least the more serious among them are a different breed of cats.
They will claim that they only do it for fun, but fact is thats not true.
They all want to win and hopefully set a record while doing it.
It tends to consume them, making many of them not much fun being around, and all for what?
Setting up dies for reloading can be as easy as reading the instructions that came with them.
And believe it or not they will produce loads more accurate than most of us can shoot our factory Savages.
Regardless as to how we choose to resize them.
But on a personal note, after 73 seasons hunting the very steep ridges of NC PA, ive had but 2 chances of getting a Black Bear.
The first time was in 1965 with a lefty premier grade Savage 110 in the 06 cartridge.
My first ever bolt gun thanks to Savage, and i wanted the best accuracy i could get out of it.
I was using Lake City Match military brass neck sized only.
The bear was a large one walking on a side hill at about 400 yds. i say about because i had no rangefinder and there werent any dials on rifle scopes then either. Anyway i hit the bear on the first shot low on a front leg and he went down, but got right back up and took off running uphill. When i cycled the bolt for another round the bolt wouldnt close. Guess what the problem was, and if you guessed the empty first round stuck in the chamber you would be correct. So dont even bother talking to me about the virtues of neck sizing.
I followed the trail of that bear till dark all the way up and over the top of that steep ridge and never caught up with it.
Next opportunity didnt happen till 15 years ago when i was 70 years old. It was in the same valley as the first one, but about a mile up the road. I was on a lookout we had made well above that dirt mountain road. We keep a bench stashed there so this time i wasent just laying on the ground when i shot. This bear was right about 700 measured yards, and again it was a first round hit with ammo loaded with plain old RCBS full legnth dies. Anybody who is serious about hunting, needs to be serious about the ammo they take along in more ways than just how small the groups are you can shoot with it. Cycle every round thru the gun before you go, and best take only the rounds that have been fired only once before.

[Ted_Feasel]

Back in the dark BC ages, (before computers) and of coarse Algores creation called the internet, most of us were far more ignorant of the proper ways of doing things.
Annealing cases is a prime example of that, as untill very recently most of us didnt even know what it was.
But now were led to believe that it has to be done every time we reload a case if we want good accuracy.
And where did that information come from?
Well the internet of coarse, it actually isnt necessary to prove things anymore so long as we can read what somebody on the internet thinks.
Target shooters, at least the more serious among them are a different breed of cats.
They will claim that they only do it for fun, but fact is thats not true.
They all want to win and hopefully set a record while doing it.
It tends to consume them, making many of them not much fun being around, and all for what?
Setting up dies for reloading can be as easy as reading the instructions that came with them.
And believe it or not they will produce loads more accurate than most of us can shoot our factory Savages.
Regardless as to how we choose to resize them.
But on a personal note, after 73 seasons hunting the very steep ridges of NC PA, ive had but 2 chances of getting a Black Bear.
The first time was in 1965 with a lefty premier grade Savage 110 in the 06 cartridge.
My first ever bolt gun thanks to Savage, and i wanted the best accuracy i could get out of it.
I was using Lake City Match military brass neck sized only.
The bear was a large one walking on a side hill at about 400 yds. i say about because i had no rangefinder and there werent any dials on rifle scopes then either. Anyway i hit the bear on the first shot low on a front leg and he went down, but got right back up and took off running uphill. When i cycled the bolt for another round the bolt wouldnt close. Guess what the problem was, and if you guessed the empty first round stuck in the chamber you would be correct. So dont even bother talking to me about the virtues of neck sizing.
I followed the trail of that bear till dark all the way up and over the top of that steep ridge and never caught up with it.
Next opportunity didnt happen till 15 years ago when i was 70 years old. It was in the same valley as the first one, but about a mile up the road. I was on a lookout we had made well above that dirt mountain road. We keep a bench stashed there so this time i wasent just laying on the ground when i shot. This bear was right about 700 measured yards, and again it was a first round hit with ammo loaded with plain old RCBS full legnth dies. Anybody who is serious about hunting, needs to be serious about the ammo they take along in more ways than just how small the groups are you can shoot with it. Cycle every round thru the gun before you go, and best take only the rounds that have been fired only once before.The anealimg doesn't really change my accuracy but I have been able to get more consistent resizing and more reloads. Ex I would get case necks splitting after about 6 loads but when I started annealing i have not had splits.... yet

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[Robinhood]

I have always loved how this Gif shows the case protruding out of the breech by1/4th to 5/16ths of an inch when in reality it sticks out an 1/8th.

https://i.imgur.com/Cne2IGF.gif

[bigedp51]

I have always loved how this Gif shows the case protruding out of the breech by1/4th to 5/16ths of an inch when in reality it sticks out an 1/8th.

Its a computer generated image of the high stress areas of the fired cartridge case. The high stress areas are where the brass is stretching to contact the bolt face and the rounded edges of the primer.

If you didn't like the first image you will like the image below even less. It shows case head expanshion from over pressure. "BUT" I think an image is worth a thousand words, especially if your like me and have two dyslixic typing finges. Robinhood your the type of person who would gripe if they hung you with a new rope! :frusty:

https://i.imgur.com/IBJQA9p.gif

[Ted_Feasel]

I have always loved how this Gif shows the case protruding out of the breech by1/4th to 5/16ths of an inch when in reality it sticks out an 1/8th.

https://i.imgur.com/Cne2IGF.gifCould the make have did that purposely for effect? To make it more obvious? I don't know, just asking


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[charlie b]

As an engineer who has worked with the type of software used in those simulations, it is a big mistake on the part of the user. Probably trying to make case head expansion look worse than it is. Or modeling a semi-auto barrel with a large ramp cutout. Even then it is wrong as the cutouts are not around the entire case.

Analyzing it, the results showing high stress where they are seems to be a result of this error in the model setup. It would have been nice if they had modeled it correctly.

[bigedp51]

As an engineer who has worked with the type of software used in those simulations, it is a big mistake on the part of the user. Probably trying to make case head expansion look worse than it is. Or modeling a semi-auto barrel with a large ramp cutout. Even then it is wrong as the cutouts are not around the entire case.

Analyzing it, the results showing high stress where they are seems to be a result of this error in the model setup. It would have been nice if they had modeled it correctly.

https://i.imgur.com/mluK7ZF.png

[Stumpkiller]

I'm doing a little head scratching on the colorful case stress .gif

The first place I notice over-pressure is enlarged primer pockets. That shows the least stress in the case around the primer.

[wbm]

Cycle every round thru the gun before you go, and best take only the rounds that have been fired only once before.

+1!

[bigedp51]

I'm doing a little head scratching on the colorful case stress .gif

The first place I notice over-pressure is enlarged primer pockets. That shows the least stress in the case around the primer.

Stumpkiller, does this image make my ass look too big?

https://i.imgur.com/IBJQA9p.gif

[charlie b]

I'm doing a little head scratching on the colorful case stress .gif

The first place I notice over-pressure is enlarged primer pockets. That shows the least stress in the case around the primer.

The difference may very well be due to the error in the model.

[yobuck]

Cease fire boys till the guys on the third floor come up with another model. lol