Starting reloading for 223

[KMW1954]

Before we start the argument about is it worth it to reload 223 let's not and say we did.

I have been loading for pistols a long time and enjoy it immensely and I have read all the pros and cons for reloading 223 and 9mm. My feeling is if you do not want to do it then don't. No one is making you do it or not do it. But at the same time don't come telling me not to because you do not think it's worth it.

I'm going to start doing it because of the new used Savage Axis I just purchased Sunday. It is a 223 with a 3X9 scope and is in very good to excellent condition. I want to learn bottleneck reloading and am curios as to how well I can make it all work together. Not expecting to put one round after another thru the same hole but it's nice to have a dream!

As I work at an outdoor range with 25yd, 50yd, 100yd, 200yd, and 300yd ranges I think I have a practice area covered and also I have already started picking up the left-over once fired brass brass. Also have been sorting through this stuff for brass that doesn't have crimped primers which I've found a lot.

Next I have looked online at Cabela's and BPS for bullets and found a few still in stock. Mostly Hornady and weights from 55 to 70gr... For powders I've looked into Accurate 2230 and 2460 to start with.

[Ted_Feasel]

Before we start the argument about is it worth it to reload 223 let's not and say we did.

I have been loading for pistols a long time and enjoy it immensely and I have read all the pros and cons for reloading 223 and 9mm. My feeling is if you do not want to do it then don't. No one is making you do it or not do it. But at the same time don't come telling me not to because you do not think it's worth it.

I'm going to start doing it because of the new used Savage Axis I just purchased Sunday. It is a 223 with a 3X9 scope and is in very good to excellent condition. I want to learn bottleneck reloading and am curios as to how well I can make it all work together. Not expecting to put one round after another thru the same hole but it's nice to have a dream!

As I work at an outdoor range with 25yd, 50yd, 100yd, 200yd, and 300yd ranges I think I have a practice area covered and also I have already started picking up the left-over once fired brass brass. Also have been sorting through this stuff for brass that doesn't have crimped primers which I've found a lot.

Next I have looked online at Cabela's and BPS for bullets and found a few still in stock. Mostly Hornady and weights from 55 to 70gr... For powders I've looked into Accurate 2230 and 2460 to start with.I reload 5.56 and have had very good results with imr 8208 xbr and varget on the heavier pills 1/7 twist

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[charlie b]

Look up CFJunkie's thread on the .223.

Then go here
https://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

Reloading may not be worth it if you are only interested in slinging bullets down range. But, if you want those little groups you need to reload and buy the more expensive bullets. Several of us like the 77gn Sierra Match Kings or Tipped Match Kings. 69gn versions are also good. Ignore the warning on Sierra's boxes about 1:8 twist rate. The 1:9 does fine out beyond 600yd. I use Varget in my loads but it can be difficult to find even on good days.

Pick bullets carefully. I know it is more difficult now to find exactly what you want. But, the differences can be significant for some of us. The 'cheap' bullets will be MOA or worse. The good ones will be .5MOA or better, and cost more too :)

One other thing. If you use most brands of brass only expect to get 4 or 5 reloads from them. I went to Lapua brass and can get at least 10 reloads. When things are 'normal' then once fired Lake City brass can be found for the least expensive option (you do have to remove the primer crimp).

[KMW1954]

Thanks for the responses guys. Good info for a bottleneck newbie.

From looking around locally the bullet selection ATM is pretty limited. Have a list of 8 powders to look for, 4 from Accurate, 3 from Hodgdon and 2 from Ramshot. Some of these fisrt selections are going to be influenced by what's available. Which I guess is OK until I get some loads under my belt and develop a system.

Working at a 300yd range I see and talk with many long range shooters with some very pretty BR guns. From 243WSSM, to 6 Dasher to 6.8 to 308 and a few others I've never heard of. Yes I have been paying attention to these guys and what they are doing. I get to see some of the note logs and marked targets of what they are loading.

This is a whole different world from loading target pistols.

[Texas10]

An inexpensive and highly accurate load can be found by using Hornaday 53 gr V-Max and IMR 3031. Components usually pretty easy to find, not pricey, good out to 750 yds.

OK to spend a little more? Try 69gr MK and TMK and varget, 8208 XBR, H335, CFE223. You can usually find one of those powders, even during a hoard.

Your 9 twist Savage will shoot the 73 gr Bergers and probably 77 SMK's. Try Varget, 8208, CFE223.

Savage is well known for putting too much clearance between the firing pin and bolt face. This leads to premature cratering or blanking of primers. Should you suspect that is the cause, and you've measured more than .002 clearance, have your bolt head bushed and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches developing loads.

[KMW1954]

Savage is well known for putting too much clearance between the firing pin and bolt face. This leads to premature cratering or blanking of primers. Should you suspect that is the cause, and you've measured more than .002 clearance, have your bolt head bushed and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches developing loads.

Hello, could you please explain this as I have no clue what you are expressing. What is Bolt Head Bushed?

Some of the powders I've looked into include; Western 2015, 2230, 2460, 2520. Hodgdon BL-C2, H322. Ramshot TAC, X-Terminator.

[JW]

Welcome to the forum.
Reloading for 223 is fun for me and a lot of others.

There are a lot of options out there and I would suggest that you take one of the suggestions offered above and go with it.( limited to what you have available)
You can easily get overloaded with a lot off good information that works, so getting started is the main thing.
I would suggest that you separate the range brass by brand and load. Different brands seem to size differently and also seat differently which means you would be changing die settings for each brand.
Jack

[Ted_Feasel]

Look up CFJunkie's thread on the .223.

Then go here
https://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

Reloading may not be worth it if you are only interested in slinging bullets down range. But, if you want those little groups you need to reload and buy the more expensive bullets. Several of us like the 77gn Sierra Match Kings or Tipped Match Kings. 69gn versions are also good. Ignore the warning on Sierra's boxes about 1:8 twist rate. The 1:9 does fine out beyond 600yd. I use Varget in my loads but it can be difficult to find even on good days.

Pick bullets carefully. I know it is more difficult now to find exactly what you want. But, the differences can be significant for some of us. The 'cheap' bullets will be MOA or worse. The good ones will be .5MOA or better, and cost more too :)

One other thing. If you use most brands of brass only expect to get 4 or 5 reloads from them. I went to Lapua brass and can get at least 10 reloads. When things are 'normal' then once fired Lake City brass can be found for the least expensive option (you do have to remove the primer crimp).Personally I get the keyhole from varget and 68gr hornady bthp match, I get excellent accuracy with 62 gr penetrators imr 8208 xbr

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[Ted_Feasel]

Before we start the argument about is it worth it to reload 223 let's not and say we did.

I have been loading for pistols a long time and enjoy it immensely and I have read all the pros and cons for reloading 223 and 9mm. My feeling is if you do not want to do it then don't. No one is making you do it or not do it. But at the same time don't come telling me not to because you do not think it's worth it.

I'm going to start doing it because of the new used Savage Axis I just purchased Sunday. It is a 223 with a 3X9 scope and is in very good to excellent condition. I want to learn bottleneck reloading and am curios as to how well I can make it all work together. Not expecting to put one round after another thru the same hole but it's nice to have a dream!

As I work at an outdoor range with 25yd, 50yd, 100yd, 200yd, and 300yd ranges I think I have a practice area covered and also I have already started picking up the left-over once fired brass brass. Also have been sorting through this stuff for brass that doesn't have crimped primers which I've found a lot.

Next I have looked online at Cabela's and BPS for bullets and found a few still in stock. Mostly Hornady and weights from 55 to 70gr... For powders I've looked into Accurate 2230 and 2460 to start with.I say go for it, I load 5.56 ALOT and you will get better quality ammo and groups when its done right. I do it for gas guns which changes a few things but I still can load ammo thats plinking grade cheaper than buying it, match grade loads cost more

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[Texas10]

Hello, could you please explain this as I have no clue what you are expressing. What is Bolt Head Bushed?

Some of the powders I've looked into include; Western 2015, 2230, 2460, 2520. Hodgdon BL-C2, H322. Ramshot TAC, X-Terminator.

When you begin loading your own, the first question you're faced with is what powder and how much? Reloading manuals will guide you but as you near a max charge, you'll need to learn to recognise when you're close to overpressure. Learning to "read a primer" by looking for cratering and piercing, (aka blanking) is but one of the clues. It's not a foolproof method as there are many reasons for cratering and blanking that are not related to overpressure, and excessive clearance between the firing pin and bolt head is but one. That is why it is always advised to start at lowest listed charge (but not below the lowest) and work up. Too little charge can be dangerous too.

Perhaps I should not have included the reference to bolt head bushing in my original post, might have been a bit early to mention that. But for those reading this who are also starting out but perhaps a bit further along, here is a link to bolt bushing. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/bolt-bushing-video.3949188/

The most important thing to know as you start out is that reloading manuals provide only suggested data, and listed "safe" loads may not be safe in YOUR rifle. Only you can determine what is safe in YOUR rifle. Others suggested loads may be safe in THEIR rifles, but not in YOURS, and vice versa. ALWAYS start at or near the starting load, and work up slowly while always looking for signs of pressure.

Loading manuals provide a lot of information besides charge weight/bullet weight info. Buy several, and get a good understanding of what's involved.

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions. Lot's of good information here, use the search feature on here when you have a specific question.

[Ted_Feasel]

When you begin loading your own, the first question you're faced with is what powder and how much? Reloading manuals will guide you but as you near a max charge, you'll need to learn to recognise when you're close to overpressure. Learning to "read a primer" by looking for cratering and piercing, (aka blanking) is but one of the clues. It's not a foolproof method as there are many reasons for cratering and blanking that are not related to overpressure, and excessive clearance between the firing pin and bolt head is but one. That is why it is always advised to start at lowest listed charge (but not below the lowest) and work up. Too little charge can be dangerous too.

Perhaps I should not have included the reference to bolt head bushing in my original post, might have been a bit early to mention that. But for those reading this who are also starting out but perhaps a bit further along, here is a link to bolt bushing. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/bolt-bushing-video.3949188/

The most important thing to know as you start out is that reloading manuals provide only suggested data, and listed "safe" loads may not be safe in YOUR rifle. Only you can determine what is safe in YOUR rifle. Others suggested loads may be safe in THEIR rifles, but not in YOURS, and vice versa. ALWAYS start at or near the starting load, and work up slowly while always looking for signs of pressure.

Loading manuals provide a lot of information besides charge weight/bullet weight info. Buy several, and get a good understanding of what's involved.

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions. Lot's of good information here, use the search feature on here when you have a specific question.I agree 100% I would add have at least 2 preferably 3 load manuals, cross reference the load data in each source and use the starting charge from the manual that lists the lowest starting load.. i say this because between Lyman, Hornady, speer and Lee load manuals your likely to get 4 minimums and 4 maximums that differ so i feel personally for me the safest is staring with the lowest and when you learn to recognize overcharge signs, all the rest of the data becomes almost irrelevant in the sense that what you will end up with is going to be the most accurate load that does not over work your firearm and that is found by working up from that lowest starting point and not so much looking at the load data as much as your looking at your brass, primers, extraction etc

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[KMW1954]

Once again guys, not new to reloading just reloading bottle neck rifles.

I have manuals and Powder manufacture data like Western and Hodgdon. First is to become familiar with the many different powder names. For now I thinks bullets are going to be hit'n miss but I'm thinking in the 60 to 70gr range or 55 gr if that is all I can find. Not so much worried about particular brands or product like powder names as I am sure as I progress I will be trying many of them for myself. It's part of the fun.

As for sorting brass by headstamp, I do that with my pistol brass all the time and not because I think it adds anything of shooting value but because I reload on a progressive press and I just like the consistency of it. To me reloading pistol is all tied into the four senses. Sight, sound, feel and intuition. If something doesn't seem right or normal then it probably usually isn't. I just like the idea that every seated primer feels the same, every sized case feels the same, every seated bullet feels the same. I just don't get that with mixed brass. So my rifle brass will be sorted also. Then after the first loading and firing it will most likely be kept as groups.

As for brass supply, working at a rifle range I have access to a lot of once fired brass and much of it as soon as it was fired and left on the bench of the floor. So far I have sorted about 2 gal buckets of 223 brass I have picked up just in the last 5 working days, and that is just from the 200/300yd range, haven't even gone near the 100yd range. Right now I have been sorting it by crimped primers or not crimped primers. Which I now have about 400pcs saved and wet tumbled. Figure I will try to save myself a step in not dealing with crimped primer brass to get started.

For now I still need to find and order a set of 223 reloading dies and then start collecting supplies.

[Ted_Feasel]

Once again guys, not new to reloading just reloading bottle neck rifles.

I have manuals and Powder manufacture data like Western and Hodgdon. First is to become familiar with the many different powder names. For now I thinks bullets are going to be hit'n miss but I'm thinking in the 60 to 70gr range or 55 gr if that is all I can find. Not so much worried about particular brands or product like powder names as I am sure as I progress I will be trying many of them for myself. It's part of the fun.

As for sorting brass by headstamp, I do that with my pistol brass all the time and not because I think it adds anything of shooting value but because I reload on a progressive press and I just like the consistency of it. To me reloading pistol is all tied into the four senses. Sight, sound, feel and intuition. If something doesn't seem right or normal then it probably usually isn't. I just like the idea that every seated primer feels the same, every sized case feels the same, every seated bullet feels the same. I just don't get that with mixed brass. So my rifle brass will be sorted also. Then after the first loading and firing it will most likely be kept as groups.

As for brass supply, working at a rifle range I have access to a lot of once fired brass and much of it as soon as it was fired and left on the bench of the floor. So far I have sorted about 2 gal buckets of 223 brass I have picked up just in the last 5 working days, and that is just from the 200/300yd range, haven't even gone near the 100yd range. Right now I have been sorting it by crimped primers or not crimped primers. Which I now have about 400pcs saved and wet tumbled. Figure I will try to save myself a step in not dealing with crimped primer brass to get started.

For now I still need to find and order a set of 223 reloading dies and then start collecting supplies.

Military crimp removers are dirt cheap, rcbs makes on you can put in your drill and literally in a matter of 2 or 3 seconds you can have that crimp gone. For my 5.56 (same dies) I use Forster bench rest for resizing and Le Wilson arbor press for precision seating.. the K&M arbor press when I bought it was about $70 and the probably around $170 total for the fortster fl size die, le Wilson seating die and Redding tapper crimp die. Again im loading for precision AR so loading for a bolt rifle you won’t need the crimp die and probably precison benchrest sizing and seating may be overkill depending on your desired results.. as the other gentleman said, for now don’t necessarily focus on all the branches, just focus for now on proper case prep, match your bullets to your barrels twist ratio. There is TONS of info out there to get you on the path and as he said don’t hesitate to ask questions and take your time and enjoy the process and the results of you labor.. there are reloaded and there are Ammo craftsmen.. I would start by deciding which one you want to be. There is no wrong answer on which to be, it only depends on if your more wanting to let’s say hunt or chase the tightest groups you can


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[wbm]

_.

[charlie b]

For crimps I'd find one of the swage versions that goes in your press. I have the RCBS cutter and it can be a pain to use a lot.

Yes, the Hornady 68gn match HPBT bullets are not very good for some reason. The 69gn and 77gn Nosler match are pretty good but I haven't seen them for a while. They seemed to be a copy of the Sierra match kings. When I 'only need' MOA i use the cheap Hornady 55gn FMJ BT bullets.

Yes, you do need to sort by headstamp. Case volume can be quite a bit different between mfgs so each headstamp may need a slightly different load.

Primer craters. Yep, have always had them. Never bothered with bushing the firing pin, I just know that the crater is not a sign of excess pressure in my rifle.

I have always liked to start with Sierra load information. When compared to other mfgs they are frequently conservative so make a safe place to start, even at their max loads. They also have separate load information for bolt and gas guns for the .223.

[KMW1954]

Thank you all for the support and sound advice. I have all my saved brass washed and dried already so tonight I may sit and sort headstamps , find out how much if each I have.

Be back later!

[Bill2905]

I'm kinda late to the dance but just wanted to add that the 223 is a great cartridge for learning bottleneck reloading. Low cost, lots of bullet choices, lots of data, and plenty of advice and opinions. As with any cartridge, you just have to figure out what bullets and loads your particular rifle likes. But, that's the fun part. Enjoy.

[KMW1954]

I'm kinda late to the dance but just wanted to add.


No one will be late to the dance or party until I finally find a load that works and I can be proud of. Even then it will always be a welcome discussion.

Sorted my kept brass and the two headstamps that were the greatest quantity are PMC at 121 and GFL at 63 then there were a few Hornady, RP and FC. and a bunch of others. I've used a lot of GFL in pistol loading but not much PMC.

[Dave Hoback]

223/5.56 is the first thing I reloaded. I prefer my 5.56 loads any day over factory. L/C brass is my choice. I use the RCBS Swage die on crimped primers. Actually, it’s not just Miltary ammo that uses crimped primers. I reload for my AR, so I use a factory crimp die. My favorites are the 69gr SMK’s, but they are too expensive anymore. Like the Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT & the 68gr & 75gr HPBT’s for better accuracy. Always used BLC-(2) powder for my reloads. But I’ll use CFE223, RL15, Ramshot TAC, ARComp... Those are my picks.

[Ted_Feasel]

223/5.56 is the first thing I reloaded. I prefer my 5.56 loads any day over factory. L/C brass is my choice. I use the RCBS Swage die on crimped primers. Actually, it’s not just Miltary ammo that uses crimped primers. I reload for my AR, so I use a factory crimp die. My favorites are the 69gr SMK’s, but they are too expensive anymore. Like the Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT & the 68gr & 75gr HPBT’s for better accuracy. Always used BLC-(2) powder for my reloads. But I’ll use CFE223, RL15, Ramshot TAC, ARComp... Those are my picks.The magic load i found for my 223 wylde (ive converted all my 5.56 to wylde.. ungodly accurate) 24.3gr varget with 68gr sierra or 69 gr sierra.. dont see any difference at all (except price) all 1/7 and will shoot anything 62gr to 75 great but 68 and 69 excellent.. 62gr are just as accurate but I have to use imr 8208 xbr.. but ive become a big fan of the wylde chamber and love loading them. In a pinch I can shoot 55gr 223 rem ammo with acceptable accuracy

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