First Savage Rifle-Not Impressed thus far.

[yobuck]

Hopefully Savage will remedy the problem and the frustration will come to an end.
Ive had similar issues with getting windage issues resolved after mounting scopes.
There are a few mounts that can help with that other than the Burris insert ones.
The old Redfield/Leupold mount with the windage adjustment on the rear can be used without using the windage adjustment built into the scope.
Also US Optics makes a very good but also very pricey windage adjustable mount.
Years back there were popular scopes including the Bausch&Lomb balvar line that had no adjustments on the scope at all.
All the adjustments for both windage and elevation were in the scope mount.
As for not dialing for windage, thats a common approach for LR hunters to use, but only when knowing the windage and elevation is correct for the initial zero. Zero actually serves no purpose other than a place to return to so you know where you are. Otherwise it can become chaos, which it sometimes ends up being anyway. lol
Actually the least amount of dialing done the better, especially when the excitement level is elevated.
Thats when mistakes are more apt to be made, so holding for follow up shots for both windage and elevation within reason at least is a good idea.
We are to a large degree attempting to make science out of something that really isnt science with all this data BS.

[mnbogboy2]

Retired Army Guy,
It's too bad you didn't join this forum prior to your purchase. Your misalignment problem is very common to Savages at all "price" levels. A search on here would have given you a heads up to this and other idiosyncrasies.
$1100 is far from "cheap" but still won't guarantee the quality of a custom.
Many on this forum have fixed the problem you have with Burris Signature rings/inserts.
Savage test firings normally dont detect or cure the misalignment problem. But now in your case they will be forced to. Most likely by changing barrel alignment with a different recoil lug. But if you change barrels in the future it may just come back!
I've seen them so far off that windage would not zero. With an aftermarket barrel I had one that would not zero with elevation.
Life is too short to sweat these little things. Buy a set of Burris rings when you get it back. You can get your centered windage plus any degree of elevation you desire.
Good luck,
Randy

[Dave Hoback]

Or better yet... fix it correctly. Either by Savage or a Gunsmith if you are not able yourself. Then get a high quality set of rings. Or better yet, a one piece mount.

[Retired Army Guy]

Retired Army Guy,
It's too bad you didn't join this forum prior to your purchase. Your misalignment problem is very common to Savages at all "price" levels. A search on here would have given you a heads up to this and other idiosyncrasies.
$1100 is far from "cheap" but still won't guarantee the quality of a custom.
Many on this forum have fixed the problem you have with Burris Signature rings/inserts.
Savage test firings normally dont detect or cure the misalignment problem. But now in your case they will be forced to. Most likely by changing barrel alignment with a different recoil lug. But if you change barrels in the future it may just come back!
I've seen them so far off that windage would not zero. With an aftermarket barrel I had one that would not zero with elevation.
Life is too short to sweat these little things. Buy a set of Burris rings when you get it back. You can get your centered windage plus any degree of elevation you desire.
Good luck,
Randy
Yes I agree! That's really why I did the post to see if others had the same problem and how it turned out. Everyone says they will fix it so I'm thinking positive thoughts.
I had a Model 70 Win. with the elevation issue it was crazy off ended up doing a screw in shim and its fine. I cant remember for sure but i think the front of the receiver was like 1/10" higher than the rear. The worst anyone I know has ever seen! Its a shooter now with a $1.00 fix!

[Retired Army Guy]

Or better yet... fix it correctly. Either by Savage or a Gunsmith if you are not able yourself. Then get a high quality set of rings. Or better yet, a one piece mount.

Yes I agree there are many options worth exploring; this is not the first time I've had to think outside the box. I'm thinking positive its going to come back and be great! :cool:

[Retired Army Guy]

Well I couldn't hardly believe it- after all this time a UPS truck delivered me a new rifle yesterday. Mounted a scope on it and did not need a single click of windage and barely two clicks of elevation to get the cross hairs over the bore=PERFECT! :victorious::victorious: Even though they were kinda slow the replacement rifle so far appears to be near perfect! Glad to see an American Firearms Company making quality products! Cant wait to shoot it!

[tobnpr]

Mass production always turns out a few lemons.

Apparently Savage agreed this was the case- hoping it shoots straight, good luck.

[Whynot]

Not attacking anyone (and if I am wrong I am willing to change my opinion)- but this seems like such overkill for a non-issue. 5 moa off of center? Custom guns have that.... and it doesn't matter. Take 2 defiance actions with the machined in integrated rail and remove a zeroed scope from one and put it on the other and it will not be dead on.

And as far as light transmission and image quality... If that was such a big issue then people wouldn't dial elevation in their scope- they would have rings that dialed it. Any time that you are actually shooting the gun (at any distance) you have dialed away from center.... and it's no issue.

But I'm glad that you received a rifle that you are happy with....

[chamokaneman]

Great thread. Learn something new every time I come here.

[tobnpr]

Not attacking anyone (and if I am wrong I am willing to change my opinion)- but this seems like such overkill for a non-issue. 5 moa off of center? Custom guns have that.... and it doesn't matter. Take 2 defiance actions with the machined in integrated rail and remove a zeroed scope from one and put it on the other and it will not be dead on.


5 minutes off receiver centerline at 100 yards isn't acceptable, and I don't follow the analogy with custom actions. Even on the same rifle, you're never getting back to zero removing and re-installing a scope even with quality QD rings.

No way to know in this case if it was the receiver, the barrel, or a combination of the two. I can honestly say I've never encountered a rifle (that wasn't defective) with that much error. It would be bad enough if it were elevation- which can be corrected. A large windage error like this is impossible to correct (easily, anyway...). The line of sight, and the imaginary line of the bore axis will cross at a different point at any given distance- it's not linear. 5 minutes at 100 yards becomes 10 minutes at 200 yards- and over 4 feet at 1000. Then, factor in the actual wind call on top of that. Too much going on there for accurate dope.

In any case, Savage would not have replaced the rifle if they didn't concur that it was substandard.

[Whynot]

5 minutes off receiver centerline at 100 yards isn't acceptable, and I don't follow the analogy with custom actions. Even on the same rifle, you're never getting back to zero removing and re-installing a scope even with quality QD rings.

No way to know in this case if it was the receiver, the barrel, or a combination of the two. I can honestly say I've never encountered a rifle (that wasn't defective) with that much error. It would be bad enough if it were elevation- which can be corrected. A large windage error like this is impossible to correct (easily, anyway...). The line of sight, and the imaginary line of the bore axis will cross at a different point at any given distance- it's not linear. 5 minutes at 100 yards becomes 10 minutes at 200 yards- and over 4 feet at 1000. Then, factor in the actual wind call on top of that. Too much going on there for accurate dope.

In any case, Savage would not have replaced the rifle if they didn't concur that it was substandard.

That was my point.... pull your scope off and then replace it and it very rarely returns to the exact zero... sometimes you can be inches off. So if something that simple can move your zero that much is seems crazy to worry about 5 inches off at 100 yards. Think about what % error that actually is.... 100 yards is 300 feet so 3600 inches... and you are dealing with 5" in 3600". And that is assuming that it was all on the rifle and nothing on the base or rings.

Dial the 5moa into your scope, set the turrets to zero and never think about it again.

[gbflyer]

That was my point.... pull your scope off and then replace it and it very rarely returns to the exact zero... sometimes you can be inches off. So if something that simple can move your zero that much is seems crazy to worry about 5 inches off at 100 yards. Think about what % error that actually is.... 100 yards is 300 feet so 3600 inches... and you are dealing with 5" in 3600". And that is assuming that it was all on the rifle and nothing on the base or rings.

Dial the 5moa into your scope, set the turrets to zero and never think about it again.

Agree with that. Also, we can beat ourselves up all day long about small axial misalignments due to good machining practices or the lack thereof. At the end of the day, not a single barrel is perfect and the bore wonders a bit on every one of them and I’ve never seen one that was perfectly centered, not that I have the measuring equipment to know how much. Put one in a lathe and look down the bore while it’s spinning. Even the best ones will sometimes make you dizzy. And they still shoot just fine. The best we can hope for is excellent bore and groove diameter consistency and stress - free heat treatment. Barrel QC is where it’s at, and is totally beyond the control of the gun plumber. NBRSA hall of famer Tony Boyer will have several barrels chambered at a time. Same maker same smith. And he will cull a bunch of them.

I have chambered many switch barrels. I have a 7-08 and a 6.5 from X-Caliber that I can interchange on the same action with 1 MOA POI shift. That’s the only ones[emoji1]

Glad Savage made it right. Would still have been interesting to shoot the original.

[Whynot]

Would still have been interesting to shoot the original.

That's the real issue.... I've bore sighted enough rifles (with lasers and removing the bolt and sighting) and you don't get close enough to have any idea if the rifle and scope were actually off. You can not bore sight and depend to be close,- all you really get is enough to be on paper and then fine tune. Also, (unless they have changed) the UPS just doesn't deliver new rifles.... they could have worked on it- or installed a new barrel, but a new gun would require paperwork. At least that was what they told me, that it was illegal to put the same serial # on a new action even if they destroyed the old one.

[Fotheringill]

Everything else in this thread is the Gospel, but think about changes caused by not having the scope mounted with equal AND proper torque on the mount to the rifle and the same for the rings and the scope. I have made that error myself and caused about 100 rounds to be used (wasted) trying to figure it out on this issue.

[Nomosendero]

Interesting, very similar to a LRH I recently bought. Was waaaay high and had to use about 1/3 of my elevation on a Ziess V-4 just to sight in at 100 yds, poor accuracy overall & have crazy shifts in windage when I change loads even with the same bullet weight, like 10" difference at 100 yds.