Times they are a changing.

[yobuck]

At least for many of us, the equipment we have is more capable than we are.
We need to find ways to improve our technique first, before we start blaming the equipment were using.
There will always be someone who can beat you. And if they use your gun instead of their own they will more than likely still beat you.
You dont have to be a great shooter or have the best equipment in order to kill lots of Prairie dogs or a deer or Antelope at some impressive distances.
But it does help if you cheat all you can.
Which in a way is what the long range benchrest shooters are doing with the joy stick front rest.

[Txhillbilly]

That is a point of differing opinions. I’m quite familiar with the ARC rings, and do not like the design. I’d also point out if what you say is true.....why aren't the countries multitude of professional shooters switching over to them? There are a handful of Pros using them, sure. But the total is fraction of the numbers using either the Spuhr or MPA mount. My point is, it’s quite easy to find those using Spuhr or MPA. Saying that either one is the “Top” mount, has both merit & evidence. Where as your statement is baseless. It simply doesn’t pass muster. I don’t mean this negatively, or as rebuke. Please don’t think of it in those terms. If you are quite happy with the ARC products, I think that is wonderful. I haven’t used rings period, for many years. And I will not use any mount with single screw point caps, or that use hinged joints. From a geometrical and designing stand point, this creates a point of pivot, possible loss of rigidity and movement. In the world of scope mounting, we are continually looking for ultimate holding. With what we know, that means the most surface contact, maximum clamping short of deforming the scope tube & highest rigidity possible. I find the ARC products are flawed in these aspects.

Again, this is simply my personal choice. Great thing we have so many mounting possibilities offered to us. Each can make their own decision based on their own research, preference... or even the one with the shiniest parts & most “bells & whistles”, LOL! That’s the great thing about all of this.

The point of my thread here was to show things I’ve found through research. Just some observations I’ve made based on the evidence I know I’m not trying to convince anybody that X brand is better than Y brand. I’m also not able to instantly teach others what I know as far as metals & composites. I’ve spent the last 8 years researching & learning Metallurgy. And I’m certainly not trying to have others “believe me”. Just outlining my observations & some things I’m trying. (And have been pleasantly surprised, based on my knowledge.)

Dave,I really don't think my view is baseless. There are plenty of shooter's both Pro and not that use and agree with my point of view. Teddy's design is far from being flawed,it flat works. If it didn't,I wouldn't be using them to secure all my tier 1 scopes.
The Spuhr mount is probably the best you can buy,if you want to add 8 ounces of weight to an already heavy scope on top of your gun,as well as pay $400 - $450 for a scope mount.

The good thing is we are all allowed to have our own views and opinions about stuff.

[Robinhood]

http://2poqx8tjzgi65olp24je4x4n-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Best-Scope-Rings.png

Thanks to PRB for the research and photo.


ARC is number 5 with guys that use and abuse there equipment.

[J.Baker]

http://2poqx8tjzgi65olp24je4x4n-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Best-Scope-Rings.png

Thanks to PRB for the research and photo.


ARC is number 5 with guys that use and abuse there equipment.


What that chart doesn't tell you however is that PRS is just like benchrest - Monkey See, Monkey Do. A top level shooter starts using a product, people see him/her using it and winning and naturally they automatically think said product is better and start using it themselves. I'm betting those top tier shooters could mount their scope with most any quality mount and continue winning.

What it also doesn't tell you is many of those top tier shooters are getting such parts for free because the manufacturers know they're top tier shooters and know their using those products on their rifle will result in sales from the monkey-see, monkey do syndrome. Like the auto makers used to say, "win on Sunday, sell on Monday."

There also seems to be a lot of folks these days who subscribe to the "mo`money means mo`betta" philosophy.

[Fuj']

What that chart doesn't tell you however is that PRS is just like benchrest - Monkey See, Monkey Do. A top level shooter starts using a product, people see him/her using it and winning and naturally they automatically think said product is better and start using it themselves. I'm betting those top tier shooters could mount their scope with most any quality mount and continue winning.

What it also doesn't tell you is many of those top tier shooters are getting such parts for free because the manufacturers know they're top tier shooters and know their using those products on their rifle will result in sales from the monkey-see, monkey do syndrome. Like the auto makers used to say, "win on Sunday, sell on Monday."

There also seems to be a lot of folks these days who subscribe to the "mo`money means mo`betta" philosophy.

What the Boss said !! In my neck of the woods we call it the "Lemming"
factor. If the top shooter is not wearing socks the day of his win, you
can bet at the next match, 10 shooters wont be wearing them. Look
back at all that data driven crap proves it out. Schmidt und Bend over
was the darling, Bartlein, and yadda yadda yadda. Did I mention I love
my DNZ's. Any of the top shooters would still be kicking ass on the tour
using these mounts, but then you have to factor in the EGO's !!

Not meant to rile anyone up, just conversation.

[yobuck]

Why should we care what (they) use anyway?

[wbm]

The Spuhr are $400. These people crazy!

[Dave Hoback]

Making a point of FACT, “If you do this, THIS will happen!”, is a baseless comment. Saying “I believe such & such is best because...”, is your opinion. I understand you likely meant it as your opinion. So did I...I think we all do, even if we don’t outwardly say that.

I agree with you completely. Having the options we do makes us very lucky indeed. It is true that any & all of these options work well. In actuality I don’t really see why the bulk are so very expensive. Oh wait a min.....could it be because we continue paying these high prices, and believing the MORE we pay, the BETTER product we have? I think it may have something to do with this. The conditioning we’ve all had. This was “kind-a” my point from the beginning. I wasn’t trying to begin another “this is the best mount” thread.

[Robinhood]

The point being that they are selling rings. There are great values out the there and there are some stuff that is way overpriced. There are people that use there stuff and there are people that have safe queens. I have been at the firing line many times where guys were bragging about how good their cheep stuff was. By the end of the day many of them were asking for help trying to figure out what was wrong with their stuff or why they got their arse kicked. Posers, the lot of them.

[Dave Hoback]

Yeah, well that’s what happens when people don’t do the proper research/testing, LOL... Guess it sucks to them!:help:

[Robinhood]

Yeah, well that’s what happens when people don’t do the proper research/testing, LOL... Guess it sucks to them!:help:

You're right Dave. Like the research and testing that was done on the Jard trigger that is so awesome. There is a poser on here that thinks they are the best trigger ever made.

[Dave Hoback]

Really? WOW! They are much too expensive for me to want one. I much prefer my own worked over Accutrigger. I mean, I’d take a Jard if someone wanted to give me one. As I’m sure anyone would. But just not worth the money IMHO. Though, none of them are.

“Edited for the horrible joking I did here. Was uncalled for. Please forgive me Robin. You know I see your knowledge and unspoken leadership here as paramount. I promise this type of “joking” is finished.”

[wbm]

_.

[yobuck]

The point being that they are selling rings. There are great values out the there and there are some stuff that is way overpriced. There are people that use there stuff and there are people that have safe queens. I have been at the firing line many times where guys were bragging about how good their cheep stuff was. By the end of the day many of them were asking for help trying to figure out what was wrong with their stuff or why they got their arse kicked. Posers, the lot of them.
Here i always thought the posers were the ones who won, and got to pose for a picture with their gun.
And 5 minits later most people forgot what their name was. lol
All the rest are just the wannabe posers, just shows how wrong my mind is on that issue also.
Ive known quite a few posers over my long life, not all are shooters and hunters, people tend to pose as lots of things.
But for sure a large number are attracted to those activities.
Theres another term we dont hear much today, and that one is (PiKERS).
They in many cases would/could at least be wannabe posers.
But they are just too cheap to part with the necessary funds in order to qualify.
Might also be their wives wont permit them the necessary funds.
So at least in my opinion (pikers) would have been the better choice word for RH to use than (posers).
But again, thats just an opinion.

[Dave Hoback]

Well, I guess some label me a poser because I don’t even compete...ever. Ran USPSA when I was younger, but those days are long gone. Haven't been involved in rifle comp. since about 12yo..LOL! Nah, I do this because it’s a lot of fun, and to pass on what I know to others.

Oh, and I help people do things FOR FREE! Which is many Gunsmiths HATE me!

[Robinhood]

Don't be so sensitive Dave. Nobody said anything about your wife. I was jabbing you. I think the post is still up so you can copy and paste it here for all to see. You will find crow doesn't taste so bad and you might learn that your not a victim. BTW, When you take a jab at me and follow with hey man Im just kidding you, it doesn't mean you good to go. You can dish it out but you can't take it. I have lots of messages from you to prove what a nut you can be. Remember it was me that talked you down off the ledge and got you to stick around on this forum. Now you turn on me. Classic....


Edit: Put your feelings in the closet Dave.

[yobuck]

Oh, and I help people do things FOR FREE! Which is many Gunsmiths HATE me![/QUOTE]
Well Dave no disrespect implied or intended, but the best way for people to get good free information, is for them to ask someone they think has some they want.
And they should be prepared to be disappointed much of the time.

[Dave Hoback]

Don't be so sensitive Dave. Nobody said anything about your wife. I was jabbing you. I think the post is still up so you can copy and paste it here for all to see. You will find crow doesn't taste so bad and you might learn that your not a victim. BTW, When you take a jab at me and follow with hey man Im just kidding you, it doesn't mean you good to go. You can dish it out but you can't take it. I have lots of messages from you to prove what a nut you can be. Remember it was me that talked you down off the ledge and got you to stick around on this forum. Now you turn on me. Classic....


Edit: Put your feelings in the closet Dave.

I thought we were all JUST kidding...right?:tea::becky: Doesn’t it mAke it more fun??

No, you’re right. I went to far “jokin” I guess. Please forgive my rudeness Robin. We’ve talked away from this. You know how I truly feel about your knowledge. I don’t mind admitting wrongdoing. I’m a sinner, and it happens unfortunately. I’ll turn it off. You are correct. I edited my first post with explanation, because it was uncalled for by my standards, regardless of anything else.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh, and I help people do things FOR FREE! Which is many Gunsmiths HATE me!
Well Dave no disrespect implied or intended, but the best way for people to get good free information, is for them to ask someone they think has some they want.
And they should be prepared to be disappointed much of the time.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t think of that as any disrespect. I hear ya.

[Robinhood]

All is good Dave. I still reserve the right to say stupid thing due to my social deviancy.