243

[Mr.Snerdly]

I am using a cheap rest that supports the fore end and butt end. I think it is plenty good enough for what I am doing. I have run a dollar bill under the barrel while it is in the rest and it seems to clear but I think I will take it apart and relieve the stock a little more to be on the safe side. I don't touch the fore end of the rifle when I shoot. I have not verified the twist rate but I thought all 243 Savage rifles were 1 in 9.25" unless it there is a serial # break that is different. The rifle is about 8-10 years old, serial # G582089 and was shot very little until recently. Barrel is 22" and is the thin barrel. I am pretty sure this is the cheapest Model 10 they made when I got it.

The thing that gives me hope is that the accuracy gets better as the bullets get lighter. There is a HUGE difference between the 100 grain and the 80 and there is a definite, measurable difference between the 80 and 75. It might do very well with the 70 or 58. I hope it doesn't take forever to get the bullets here. I might even get some 4064 powder as someone suggested. I would be happy if I could get 3/4 MOA pretty consistently and hopefully 5/8 a reasonable amount of the time. I think that is about all you could expect from it. I know I could be off that much in my shooting technique but I also don't think I am terrible either.

[Dave Hoback]

Savage model 10s in 243 are 1:9.25 twist. Not fast enough for the heavy loads. I don’t believe the 243 Savage 10s were ever really known to be Tac drivers. I think just Sub to MOA is about what to expect.

Get a faster barrel & load worked up, and it will likely deliver drastically better groups.

[Mr.Snerdly]

I finally tracked down some 65 grain bullets. Stuff is really hard to get now. Turned out to be less money than my online sources for both bullets and powder. The 65 grain were no better than the 75 grain but they were no worse either. I think about 3/4 MOA-1 MOA is about it, which isn't terribly bad but it seems everyone on the internet can take a $300 rifle they got on sale for $239.99 and shoot 1/2" groups "with the right factory ammo". Has not been my experience but these aren't terrible either.

[Ted_Feasel]

I've been experimenting with hard cast in my 308 and creedmoor, my friend makes them and I only used about 10 in the shilen and 10 in the criterion but I have to say, I was AMAZED at the consistency and accuracy of plain old hard cast lead

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Ted_Feasel]

I've been experimenting with hard cast in my 308 and creedmoor, my friend makes them and I only used about 10 in the shilen and 10 in the criterion but I have to say, I was AMAZED at the consistency and accuracy of plain old hard cast lead

Sent from my SM-N975U using TapatalkHe has always bragged to me that they were more accurate than match grade bullets.. i gotta say from what I saw, I can no longer dismiss what he said

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[22 Mag]

Have you Really cleaned the barrel??? If you have shot it more then 20 times between cleanings on a new barrel you are way behind the copper build-up.
Have you looked at the muzzle of the barrel for any small nicks or bad edges on the rifling?? A small nick or ding on the rifling will throw your bullets all over the place.

Just some thoughts

I have had some of my best .243 groups with 100gr Sierra SBT's and a full load of IMR 4350 up to 43.0 grs

22 Mag

[Mr.Snerdly]

Have you Really cleaned the barrel??? If you have shot it more then 20 times between cleanings on a new barrel you are way behind the copper build-up.
Have you looked at the muzzle of the barrel for any small nicks or bad edges on the rifling?? A small nick or ding on the rifling will throw your bullets all over the place.

Just some thoughts

I have had some of my best .243 groups with 100gr Sierra SBT's and a full load of IMR 4350 up to 43.0 grs

22 Mag


I cleaned it pretty well before I went out this morning. I haven't looked at the muzzle very closely and maybe I should. It shot the worst the first group. I even fired 2 shots before I shot the group just to eliminate that variable. It wasn't terrible on the first group but it seemed every one after got a little better. Not a lot but enough more I don't think it was random chance. I am trying about .5 more grain of powder and see if it helps or makes it worse. The wind is a constant battle too but this morning it was nearly calm. The barrel isn't a brand new one. It has had probably 400-450 through it.

I don't think there is another subject with so many different opinions on than cleaning. Some say clean every 20 shots, some say don't clean until accuracy falls off, some say copper has to be removed completely, others say copper fills in the imperfections bound to be in a mass produced barrel. I have no idea what is right or wrong.

[GrenGuy]

Let your rifle, your loads, your shooting, and your TARGETS dictate what you need to do. Reality trumps theory every time. :cool:

[tobnpr]

I don't think there is another subject with so many different opinions on than cleaning. Some say clean every 20 shots, some say don't clean until accuracy falls off, some say copper has to be removed completely, others say copper fills in the imperfections bound to be in a mass produced barrel. I have no idea what is right or wrong.

A bit off your topic, but...
There are no hard and fast rules here with "break-in"- which you're well past. With premium barrels that have been hand-lapped, there are minimal to no machining imperfections that will strip copper, so many guys will "just shoot it". With mass-produced factory barrels there are machining imperfections in the throat, as well as a ton of chatter marks on Savages in particular from the rifling button. These will strip/fill with copper, so when new it's common to strip that copper frequently so it doesn't build up making removal difficult, and the bullets can continue to "lap" out these imperfections to the extent they can.

Since you're past break-in and it's irrelevant, I'd suggest starting from a blank slate. "Cleaning"- do you mean powder? copper? both? Completely strip all fouling- powder AND copper- from the barrel, then shoot it. Log round counts and changes in accuracy to see how your barrel responds. Most of us, shoot until accuracy degrades, then clean. Depending on the barrel, it can take a handful to a maybe a dozen or so rounds to restore accuracy after completely stripping all copper from the bore.

Again, if you're shooting minute of angle and you've done hundreds of rounds of "load development"- you've got, what you've got. Don't forget the action is in the tupperware stock, no guarantees- but accuracy might improve with a bedding job or better stock.

[Smokey262]

OP, I don't see anywhere in the thread where you say what you are trying to achieve except smaller groups. I don't see the distance you are shooting at, or would like to get to. I don't see if you are creating a hunting load, a target load, or just a load for making holes in the paper for fun.

What's up?

[charlie b]

I am one of those who has achieved consistent 1/2MOA groups with my Axis .223. BUT...it was after a lot of rounds went down range and after trying 5 or 6 different bullets. Between 300 and 400 rounds the thing settled down a lot, from 1-2 MOA to less than 1MOA. Then I started using Sierra Match King bullets in the heavier weights. That got me down well below 1MOA consistently. Sticking with the 77gn SMK got me close to 1/2MOA. The last little bit to get to 1/2MOA on a regular basis was a bit of refinement of my shooting technique.

My 12BVSS in .308 is still not a 1/2MOA rifle. It is well below 1MOA. Before I refined it much more I went to cast bullets. As Ted mentioned, they can be very accurate IF care is taken in making the bullets. There are several other variables to work out, but, it is a fun way to test your skills.

Cleaning. My .223 does not seem to care much about copper fouling....until it does. I can shoot 200 rounds without cleaning it and it is still accurate. But, the groups will 'suddenly' grow when it gets too bad. At that point I clean the powder fouling AND the copper (I swear by KG12 copper remover after trying all the ammonia based products like Sweet's). After the deep clean it takes about 10 rounds to settle back down again. A weird point, it LIKES to be fired when hot, as in too hot to touch the barrel.

My .308 is different. It likes to be clean and will start to show accuracy issues after 50 rounds. The nice thing about shooting cast bullets is I don't have to clean copper out of it after every shooting session :) It also does NOT like to be fired hot. I take frequent breaks to keep the barrel cool (which can be hard here in the summer :) ).

So, short answer is, don't expect one hole groups without a bit of work. Lots of people may get lucky with a factory barrel, but, many of us are not.

[hickerx2]

it seems everyone on the internet can take a $300 rifle they got on sale for $239.99 and shoot 1/2" groups "with the right factory ammo".

Funny how that always happens. Not only that, but it's always "all day long":director::director:

[wbm]

It is.

[Mr.Snerdly]

OP, I don't see anywhere in the thread where you say what you are trying to achieve except smaller groups. I don't see the distance you are shooting at, or would like to get to. I don't see if you are creating a hunting load, a target load, or just a load for making holes in the paper for fun.

What's up?

It is strictly how accurate I can get without spending too much money. It started that way but it seems like there is always some little thing you think might help and you spend another $20-30 dollars. Keep doing it and it adds up. I haven't spent a great lot yet but I am seriously considering getting an aftermarket stock, something I said I would never do, along with an expensive barrel. By the time you do all that you might just as well buy an expensive gun but I guess that would kind of take the challenge out of it. I am limited to about 100 yards in the summer. Winter I might go out to 300 but I would like to get good at 100 for now.

[Robinhood]

Since you reload, have you ever checked bullet Run Out?

[wbm]

So do you just run out and check? :rolleyes:

[charlie b]

No, I walk. Running with bullets is dangerous. :)

[charlie b]

Snerdley,

Yep, you can put a lot of money into a build, or, spend $2000-5000 on a custom build from scratch. :) Easier to start with what you have unless the build part is not fun for you. How much you spend depends partly on how small you want to groups to be. Remember that once you get to MOA then a lot of this depends on your capability.

Once I have tried a gun with good bullets and at least two weights, without desired results, then I'd try to improve something. I started with the stock, mainly cause I wanted something prettier than the plastic stuff. Got a little improvement, but, most of that was the stock making me more comfortable in the shooting position. Then I got a new scope so I could get more repeatable reticle adjustments. At that time I worked on my shooting form. That got me where I wanted to be.

Yes, I could try to refine it more but at this point I do not think I am good enough to see better results.

[Mr.Snerdly]

Since you reload, have you ever checked bullet Run Out?

Not yet. The boys that rented my farm have scattered my tools to so damn many places I have no idea where to look. I have a dial indicator but can't seem to find it. Went out and looked for some other tools this morning with no result. I am somewhat disappointed with this. They are good boys and do a good job but they have ruined numerous what I would consider fairly precision tools. If and when I locate some of the tools I will try to check that too.

[Mr.Snerdly]

^^^^I know I am not perfect and I can't blame the gun completely but what makes me think it is the gun more than my ability is that the groups are fairly consistent and also with two other guns the groups are quite a lot better.