10BA .308 Steath bullet weights

[Ted_Feasel]

Stress/stiffness can change harmonics also. Diameter and length obviously does as well.I get that but they should be able to use pitch to correlate to a consistent harmonic. Harmonics are a direct expression of certain aspects of pitch. For instance on a guitar there is always certain frets the above them always display a harmonic that is identical to the pitch. The octave may vary but the harmonic to pitch is always identical

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[Ted_Feasel]

I get that but they should be able to use pitch to correlate to a consistent harmonic. Harmonics are a direct expression of certain aspects of pitch. For instance on a guitar there is always certain frets the above them always display a harmonic that is identical to the pitch. The octave may vary but the harmonic to pitch is always identical

Sent from my SM-N975U using TapatalkDirect example, 12th fret, above it is ALWAYS the harmonic that is identical to the note you have tuned that string to. If you tune that string a half step off then its harmonic will be identically a half step off and so on

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[Robinhood]

Im not familiar with the vernacular of the guitar even though I have two. I veiw harmonics when two items have a same or similar natural frequency. Im not smart enough to justify harmonics in this conversation. To me, Harmonics with regards to a barrel would be a negative. Vibration frequency is the data your after. that will give you time to distance in waves...yes ...no...?

[Ted_Feasel]

Im not familiar with the vernacular of the guitar even though I have two. I veiw harmonics when two items have a same or similar natural frequency. Im not smart enough to justify harmonics in this conversation. To me, Harmonics with regards to a barrel would be a negative. Vibration frequency is the data your after. that will give you time to distance in waves...yes ...no...?Yes , harmonics are harmonics wether from a string vibrating or a barrel snapping.. i guess what I'm theorizing is recording the pitch of your specific barrel would be more accurate than going by charts of certain types of steel because the harmonic or pitch of you barrel would allow you to plug in a exact number instead of a close number.. just like stress, size etc on a barrel, the exact same principles apply for sound, like bigger stings produce lower note and the tighter those string are pulled the higher the pitch therfore harmonic is..

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[Ted_Feasel]

Yes , harmonics are harmonics wether from a string vibrating or a barrel snapping.. i guess what I'm theorizing is recording the pitch of your specific barrel would be more accurate than going by charts of certain types of steel because the harmonic or pitch of you barrel would allow you to plug in a exact number instead of a close number.. just like stress, size etc on a barrel, the exact same principles apply for sound, like bigger stings produce lower note and the tighter those string are pulled the higher the pitch therfore harmonic is..

Sent from my SM-N975U using TapatalkRead that definition.. where it says "etc" that could be a wine glass, a coke bottle, a barrel of a rifle and so on and I think you'll get what I mean

https://www.google.com/search?q=Harmonics+definition&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m

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[Robinhood]

Yes , harmonics are harmonics whether from a string vibrating or a barrel snapping.. i guess what I'm theorizing is recording the pitch of your specific barrel would be more accurate than going by charts of certain types of steel because the harmonic or pitch of you barrel would allow you to plug in a exact number instead of a close number.. just like stress, size etc on a barrel, the exact same principles apply for sound, like bigger stings produce lower note and the tighter those string are pulled the higher the pitch therefore harmonic is..

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The higher the pitch _ faster vibration frequency . That's why I feel the term frequency is more appropriate. Semantics. I edited my post above but I think I messed it before you had read it. All you need is a way to support the barrel, an oscilloscope and an acceleraometer.

It may be best to support the action with the barrel suspended like it is in the stock. I small brass hammer with a tap in the same axis as the accelerometer. You could experiment with the location to get the best resolution but the frequency should be the same. We called it a ring test. The amplitude would start high and reduce rapidly with an exciting force, reducing over time but the frequency stays the same until it almost flatlines.

I could not find a good example on google but here is an example of those waves,(you have seen this before) https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. c5w8O4TsRlSIMgvmz0uusQHaEh%26pid%3DApi&f=1

Everything has a natural frequency. Al it needs to be done is to excite it. The ring down test will give you the time between the peaks or a cycle. As with sound, microwaves and vibration it is all the same wen analyzing the wave form. 1 hertz is one cycle in one second. 60 htz is one cycle in .017seconds etc..etc... I'm sure there are ballistics engineers that are doing this somewhere in our military.

[Robinhood]

The V in that diagram is volts but can be substituted for amplitude. Amplitude if very high reduces the frequency by nature. If there was high amplitude at a high frequency the rifle would be thrown out of your hands.

[Robinhood]

This might be a good example of something that is dampened when the exciting force is applied. I think barrel block effect. again the vertical description is meaningless and still applies to amplitude forthe sake of this conversation. Time between peaks remains the same. The natural frequency would be observed..https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bb-elec.com%2FImages%2FdliFIG3.aspx&f=1&nofb=1

[Robinhood]

This wave form using FFT software can be converted to a spectrum that would show you one spike being the natural frequency.

[Robinhood]

I missed my point. So Harmonics is what is taking place. Frequency is the component used to measure the data you are looking for.

[tenth_gen]

Most of us reload for cost reasons. The only rifle I don't reload for right now is my M1 Garand cause I don't shoot it much. I bought a bunch of surplus military ammo for it a while back and was satisfied with the accuracy since the Garand is not an MOA rifle.

If cost is not an object then use Federal Gold Medal Match or Black Hills match ammo. Some of the other mfgs may be getting better with their match ammo as well. Some have had good luck with some of the foreign brands.

If cost is an issue, and if you can in your country, try some surplus 7.62 ammo first.

Yeah most of our local shops have some brass cased 7.62x51 Austrian Hirtenberger 150gn for around a dollar a shot but if you buy 500 rounds you can get it for $450

[Ted_Feasel]

The higher the pitch _ faster vibration frequency . That's why I feel the term frequency is more appropriate. Semantics. I edited my post above but I think I messed it before you had read it. All you need is a way to support the barrel, an oscilloscope and an acceleraometer.

It may be best to support the action with the barrel suspended like it is in the stock. I small brass hammer with a tap in the same axis as the accelerometer. You could experiment with the location to get the best resolution but the frequency should be the same. We called it a ring test. The amplitude would start high and reduce rapidly with an exciting force, reducing over time but the frequency stays the same until it almost flatlines.

I could not find a good example on google but here is an example of those waves,(you have seen this before) https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. c5w8O4TsRlSIMgvmz0uusQHaEh%26pid%3DApi&f=1

Everything has a natural frequency. Al it needs to be done is to excite it. The ring down test will give you the time between the peaks or a cycle. As with sound, microwaves and vibration it is all the same wen analyzing the wave form. 1 hertz is one cycle in one second. 60 htz is one cycle in .017seconds etc..etc... I'm sure there are ballistics engineers that are doing this somewhere in our military.Yezzz:) thats what I'm talking about. I'm sure if my brain thought about it, like you said some mil engineer is experimenting with it

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[Ted_Feasel]

I missed my point. So Harmonics is what is taking place. Frequency is the component used to measure the data you are looking for.Yes , harmonics from barrel vibration or a wine glass being pinged are the same creature and harmonics are fractionally subsets of frequency or pitch/tone.. any who wasn't trying to hijack a thread , just thought it would be a interesting idea.

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[CFJunkie]

There is a difference in the harmonics of the vibrations of a barrel caused by a strike against the steel and the shock wave induced in the steel caused by the explosion of the powder that bulges the barrel. Both cause motion, but one flexes the barrel in the stock and the other bulges the barrel.
In both cases you try to time the exit so that the vibration is at a minimum when the bullet leaves the barrel.
The reflection speed of the shock wave is governed by the reflection speed of the steel - the speed that the shock wave travels down the barrel in the steel.
The vibration of the barrel in the stock is governed by the barrel mounting and the stiffness of the barrel.
There is a slight bulge in the barrel as the shock wave moves down the barrel. Part of the benefit of timing the exit of the bullet so the shock wave is back at the chamber is that the crown is tightest when the bulge is furthest away from the crown. Secondarily, it also provides consistency of the barrel position for loads that are tuned correctly and loaded consistently.
However, is doesn't change the relative effect of the barrel mounts. The diameter of the barrel doesn't change the speed of the reflection nor does the size of the bore. The shock wave moves down the steel, not the air in the barrel.

From my data, the reflection speed and the benefit of tuning the exit time is the same for a bull barrel and a pencil barrel.
However, there appears to be is a difference in the relative movement of the barrel. So in that respect the overall diameter of the barrel does effect its stiffness.
The idea of any harmonic tuning is to get the exit time to match the minimum harmonic movement at the tip. Tuning for exit time does that, at least it creates a consistent position of the barrel as long as you do it right.

[Ted_Feasel]

There is a difference in the harmonics of the vibrations of a barrel caused by a strike against the steel and the shock wave induced in the steel caused by the explosion of the powder that bulges the barrel. Both cause motion, but one flexes the barrel in the stock and the other bulges the barrel.
In both cases you try to time the exit so that the vibration is at a minimum when the bullet leaves the barrel.
The reflection speed of the shock wave is governed by the reflection speed of the steel - the speed that the shock wave travels down the barrel in the steel.
The vibration of the barrel in the stock is governed by the barrel mounting and the stiffness of the barrel.
There is a slight bulge in the barrel as the shock wave moves down the barrel. Part of the benefit of timing the exit of the bullet so the shock wave is back at the chamber is that the crown is tightest when the bulge is furthest away from the crown. Secondarily, it also provides consistency of the barrel position for loads that are tuned correctly and loaded consistently.
However, is doesn't change the relative effect of the barrel mounts. The diameter of the barrel doesn't change the speed of the reflection nor does the size of the bore. The shock wave moves down the steel, not the air in the barrel.

From my data, the reflection speed and the benefit of tuning the exit time is the same for a bull barrel and a pencil barrel.
However, there appears to be is a difference in the relative movement of the barrel. So in that respect the overall diameter of the barrel does effect its stiffness.
The idea of any harmonic tuning is to get the exit time to match the minimum harmonic movement at the tip. Tuning for exit time does that, at least it creates a consistent position of the barrel as long as you do it right.The difference between a strike and a explosion would be anouloguis to a light pluck on a guitar string or a very hard strike on the same string, both will produce the same tones/requencies/pitches/harmonics but one will be stronger then the other but neither one will change the underlying overtones that are created. From that point it should be a predictable multiplication to get how many time the barrel reflects or a string oscillates before it dies off i would think

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[Ted_Feasel]

The difference between a strike and a explosion would be anouloguis to a light pluck on a guitar string or a very hard strike on the same string, both will produce the same tones/requencies/pitches/harmonics but one will be stronger then the other but neither one will change the underlying overtones that are created. From that point it should be a predictable multiplication to get how many time the barrel reflects or a string oscillates before it dies off i would think

Sent from my SM-N975U using TapatalkAll I'm getting at i think, is getting a true measurement of the barrels tones would be more accurate than estimations of steel due to its varying compositions of carbon, nickle etc

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[Ted_Feasel]

All I'm getting at i think, is getting a true measurement of the barrels tones would be more accurate than estimations of steel due to its varying compositions of carbon, nickle etc

Sent from my SM-N975U using TapatalkMaybe a drum head would make a better example. For instance, once a drummer has tightened the drum head skin to produce the desired tones he or she is after, striking it harder does not change the tone, it only changes how many times it reflects, a soft tap will produce few reflections let's just say in the key of C but a hard strike will produce many reflections in the key of C

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[Ted_Feasel]

Maybe a drum head would make a better example. For instance, once a drummer has tightened the drum head skin to produce the desired tones he or she is after, striking it harder does not change the tone, it only changes how many times it reflects, a soft tap will produce few reflections let's just say in the key of C but a hard strike will produce many reflections in the key of C

Sent from my SM-N975U using TapatalkI'm just thinking outloud here, I don't know if there is any practical way this can be applied but I'm willing to bet there probably is

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[charlie b]

The discussion of harmonics is good, but, you'd have to remove the barrel from the receiver to get an accurate reading on the pitch. And don't know how accurately you can measure the pitch without some expensive hardware.

I'd also add in that even with the knowledge the results may not be that accurate just because of all the variables from shot to shot. A change of a few fps changes exit times a bit and then you have to set seating depth very accurately and know that it sits in the chamber at the same point every time (position of case shoulder relative to bullet position), etc, etc.

Despite all of that and assumptions that go into the calculations I can't fault the results that CFJunkie gets in actual shooting at the range.

[Ted_Feasel]

The discussion of harmonics is good, but, you'd have to remove the barrel from the receiver to get an accurate reading on the pitch. And don't know how accurately you can measure the pitch without some expensive hardware.

I'd also add in that even with the knowledge the results may not be that accurate just because of all the variables from shot to shot. A change of a few fps changes exit times a bit and then you have to set seating depth very accurately and know that it sits in the chamber at the same point every time (position of case shoulder relative to bullet position), etc, etc.

Despite all of that and assumptions that go into the calculations I can't fault the results that CFJunkie gets in actual shooting at the range.Wouldn't you want the relative harmonic of the barrel (mounted how you would be shooting it) and not the true harmonic (barrel only)? I'm genuinely asking because I'm not sure but as for equipment, it could be measured with a oscilloscope

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