Savage 10 308 to 7 WSM thoughts/advise please.

[Tahoe1305]

Hello all

my first post here but I joined to avoid re-inventing the wheel on something I’m sure someone has tried. I’ve searched the threads but couldn’t find an exact answer so figure a new post wouldn’t hurt.

I have a 15 year old savage 10FP LE1 in 308 with a choate stock that’s been sitting and I have always wanted a 7mm so figure it’s time for a face lift. Goal is a longer range hunting and target rig that is moderately light (<7lbs bare) and has 1000ft-lbs of energy at 1000yds (arbitrary I know but puts it enough above my current hunting rig to make the purchase worth it).

I have pretty much settled on 7 WSM because it appears as of this minute, brass is available from 3-4 manufacturers, there are two or three factory loads for it, and I can get a 100fps bump or so over SAUM (although I’m not against SAUM but I can’t find brass for it right now). It appears the savage action and AICS magazines can support 2.95” COALs which I believe is fine for up to about 175-180 gr bullets which is all I’m after in a SA. The thought of a 150-162gr ELDX makes me plenty happy.

Right now I’m targeting Carbon6 Sendero 25” prefit in 1:9 twist (42oz),XLR Element 3.0 in magnesium with smoke composite buttstock (30oz) and folding adapter. I believe I read that the savage SA weighs about 30oz for my estimating weight purposes.

The specific questions I have are:

1) Has anyone else made this conversion and can you confirm all I will need with the action/bolt is a PTG magnum bolt face ($70), an action wrench, barrel but wrench, barrel vice, and go/nogo gauges?

2) Is 2.95 COAL enough to get close to lands with SAAMI throated 7 WSM in 150-175gr bullets and is it possible with the newer powders (targeting RL26) to sneak 3300fps out of the 150 gr and 3150 out of the 160gr bullets loaded a bit long with a 25” barrel?

3) Any feedback in my component selection with XLR and Carbon6, please recommend others if you have them. Also would love a recommendation on a trigger upgrade for the savage.

4) Any last pushes towards another SA 7mm chambering that can get close to the stated objectives?

appreciate everyone’s help.

[loveha]

1) In the process of converting a Model 10 in 7mm-08 to 300WSM. What I needed was the magnum bolt head (PTG), small firing pin, and bolt head retaining pin for the small firing pin. My rifle is from 2001 and had the large firing pin and the PTG head is for small firing pin. Not sure when/what firing pins are what years/models.
I only bought the barrel nut wrench and action wrench from NSS. No need for a barrel vise. Wouldn't hurt to buy new lug and nut. Ordered my gauges from Manson.

3) Have the new ELF trigger, but need a new sear and my rifle and chassis is off for Cerakote so no input yet. If I can't get a sear for some reason I'm going to get a Jard as it is a complete trigger replacement, just wish they had a heavier option.

[yobuck]

The only at least potential problem i see, is the word hunting.
Much will pertain to where you hunt as to terrain etc. but theres even more.
We can shoot at targets at any distance we so choose, and our success doing that often establishes an opinion on our hunting distance limits.
We can research the balistics of a cartridge in order to select the proper one for our needs.
Modern Lazer rangefinders can easily give all the information needed for scope adjustments.
But the big difference is its a live target and not a rock or a paper target.
As a result, nothing works as well as when fun shooting at rocks or paper, and mistakes are more easily made.
We can lay on the ground and wiggle around till our body is in the proper position for the target.
But if the target is not where it was when you can finally take the shot, that could mean a bad hit instead of a kill shot.
So if were starting out at pretty much max range for the gun, what happens when your follow up shot is much further?
Its not uncommon when hunting, to be following a deer in your scope for 10 minits, and never have a decent shot before he goes over the top or out of site. Especially if he is chasing a doe.
Hail Mary shots with smaller cartridges at obsene distances can be fun so long as nothing is getting hurt.
But when hunting, start out with more gun than you need, because before its over you might.
Id be keeping the 308 for practice shooting, and buy or build a bigger one for the hunting.
Or rearrange your thoughts on the distance factor.

[Tahoe1305]

Fair enough. My personal hunting limit is 400yds. My tikka in 6.5C gets me their easy. But for elk and bigger game I want a bit more energy. I am assuming you are after my 1000 ft lbs at 1000yds....not intended hunting distance by any means, just a benchmark for higher BC bullets going a certain speed at the muzzle and ability to retain it at further distances. That’s just the benchmark I use on all my rifles for some reason.

thanks for input thus far.

[want2ride]

I don't have one, but my brother shoots 162 and 175's out of his 7mm WSM out of a factory savage sa magazine and IIRC he is at 3150 with both the 162 and 175 with RL26 and a shilen 26" barrel. he said that the 162 could go hotter, but it kicks a LOT with the higher load, same with the 175 at 3150, so the 162 at 3150 is his favorite.

[yobuck]

I don't have one, but my brother shoots 162 and 175's out of his 7mm WSM out of a factory savage sa magazine and IIRC he is at 3150 with both the 162 and 175 with RL26 and a shilen 26" barrel. he said that the 162 could go hotter, but it kicks a LOT with the higher load, same with the 175 at 3150, so the 162 at 3150 is his favorite.
Ive been using 7mms for long range hunting for about 50 years.
Our camp has no doubt had well over 100 buck kills using 162 gr Hornadys leaving the muzzle at speeds of 3400 fps.
BUT, when we start talking about distances of 1000 yds, and POSSIBLY, even further, that changes everything.
If you want to talk about the heavier bullets available for them, you go right ahead and talk about them.
And while your at it, talk about the kills youve made with them also.
Yes it can be, and beyond that it has been done many times.
There are also better choices today, and my advise would be to pick one.
If i were young and starting over today, i would own a 280 Rem for a walking around type gun, and either a 300 Norma or a 300 Ultra mag for the long shots with a 28” barrel weighing 15# or more on a custom single shot action.

[Robinhood]

Your firing pin is designed for a standard length bolt head. Get the standard 7/16 Length lug when you order a PTG. Measure your firing pin to make sure it is a good fit. If you have the large pin drilling the PTG out is not a problem. Set your protrusion @.035 - .044. It will fall in that range. Or buy a Savage Short Action Magnum complete bolt assembly.

If or when the bolt gets sticky you need to change brass or get a small base die if they make one. Get a brake, all that light weight stuff will punish you. An 8.5 twist may be better.

[want2ride]

Ive been using 7mms for long range hunting for about 50 years.
Our camp has no doubt had well over 100 buck kills using 162 gr Hornadys leaving the muzzle at speeds of 3400 fps.
BUT, when we start talking about distances of 1000 yds, and POSSIBLY, even further, that changes everything.
If you want to talk about the heavier bullets available for them, you go right ahead and talk about them.
And while your at it, talk about the kills youve made with them also.
Yes it can be, and beyond that it has been done many times.
There are also better choices today, and my advise would be to pick one.
If i were young and starting over today, i would own a 280 Rem for a walking around type gun, and either a 300 Norma or a 300 Ultra mag for the long shots with a 28” barrel weighing 15# or more on a custom single shot action.
Those are some pretty impressive speeds. i would venture that is a good amount faster than my brother's 7mm STW with 162's. I have been using 160 class bullets since i got my first 7mm Rem Mag in the early 90's and the sweet spot has always been 3050-3080. Even at that i wouldn't consider needing more energy than the 7mm Rem Mag can supply till i got over 1000 yards. my longest kill has been 530 yards, and i really don't see making a shot over 800 even with my 300 mags... no need. I would feel pretty comfortable making that same 800 yard shot with my 280ai with 168's.
IMO if you feel comfortable taking the shot a 162 at 3150 MV easily has enough to kill a deer at 1000 yards.

[yobuck]

Those are some pretty impressive speeds. i would venture that is a good amount faster than my brother's 7mm STW with 162's. I have been using 160 class bullets since i got my first 7mm Rem Mag in the early 90's and the sweet spot has always been 3050-3080 (tel:3050-3080). Even at that i wouldn't consider needing more energy than the 7mm Rem Mag can supply till i got over 1000 yards. my longest kill has been 530 yards, and i really don't see making a shot over 800 even with my 300 mags... no need. I would feel pretty comfortable making that same 800 yard shot with my 280ai with 168's.
IMO if you feel comfortable taking the shot a 162 at 3150 MV easily has enough to kill a deer at 1000 yards.
The 7 STW and the 7x300 WBY would be pretty much clones balisticly. I use 78 gr of 7828 in my gun with the 162 Hornady match BTHP bullet.
I have used up to 80 gr but that can be a hot load if the wether is warm. So if your brother isnt using 7828 in his gun, id recommend he try it.
My load for the 7 mm Rem mag when i was using that cartridge was 65 gr 4831 with the 162 gr bullet, and in my factory 24” barrel it was right around 3050 fps. My longest kill with the 7x300 WBY was 1200 yds, and i wouldnt care to try for a longer one with it. Again, not saying it cant be done, just asking WHY, when better choices are available. Mind you we still use the 7mms, but only at locations where we know the distance cant exceed about 1000 yds. I get the same velocity from the 300 Norma using a 190 gr as i do with the 162 from the 7x300, and the difference in performance on animals at the longer distances cant be compared.
Animals dont die from bullet energy, they die from blood loss caused by tissue damage, unless they have been hit in a very vital location like a head or good neck shot. Even a spine shot wont cause them to die quickly unless considerable tissue damage has been done.
It takes a combination of bullet weight and velocity for a good long range cartridge for hunting. Which is why the smaller ones have lost out.
Look, the man who holds the 10 shot world record for the 1000 yd (heavy gun) class, did it with a 300 WSM cartridge. He is also a PA long range hunter, but for that he uses a 338 Lapua with an improved case. Id be willing to bet that the vast majority of shots taken at animals with that gun are less than a 1000 yds but it handles those very well also.

[nksmfamjp]

1) Has anyone else made this conversion and can you confirm all I will need with the action/bolt is a PTG magnum bolt face ($70), an action wrench, barrel but wrench, barrel vice, and go/nogo gauges?

2) Is 2.95 COAL enough to get close to lands with SAAMI throated 7 WSM in 150-175gr bullets and is it possible with the newer powders (targeting RL26) to sneak 3300fps out of the 150 gr and 3150 out of the 160gr bullets loaded a bit long with a 25” barrel?

3) Any feedback in my component selection with XLR and Carbon6, please recommend others if you have them. Also would love a recommendation on a trigger upgrade for the savage.

4) Any last pushes towards another SA 7mm chambering that can get close to the stated objectives?

1) Have you considered just getting a Savage bolt head? They tend to work pretty well. SSS
could true and time that action for you up nice.

2) It is in 300WSM with 190 VLD’s.....

3) I would look into a Proof Research blank. They have an excellent reputation! For triggers, Jard makes 2 types....a 3 lever target and a standard hunting weight (with sear). Unless SSS goes back into production, it seems like Jard is the only producer of a whole trigger.

4) Have you considered a 6.5? Take a look at the Sherman Wildcats.

[want2ride]

The 7 STW and the 7x300 WBY would be pretty much clones balisticly. I use 78 gr of 7828 in my gun with the 162 Hornady match BTHP bullet.
I have used up to 80 gr but that can be a hot load if the wether is warm. So if your brother isnt using 7828 in his gun, id recommend he try it.
My load for the 7 mm Rem mag when i was using that cartridge was 65 gr 4831 with the 162 gr bullet, and in my factory 24” barrel it was right around 3050 fps. My longest kill with the 7x300 WBY was 1200 yds, and i wouldnt care to try for a longer one with it. Again, not saying it cant be done, just asking WHY, when better choices are available. Mind you we still use the 7mms, but only at locations where we know the distance cant exceed about 1000 yds. I get the same velocity from the 300 Norma using a 190 gr as i do with the 162 from the 7x300, and the difference in performance on animals at the longer distances cant be compared.
Animals dont die from bullet energy, they die from blood loss caused by tissue damage, unless they have been hit in a very vital location like a head or good neck shot. Even a spine shot wont cause them to die quickly unless considerable tissue damage has been done.
It takes a combination of bullet weight and velocity for a good long range cartridge for hunting. Which is why the smaller ones have lost out.
Look, the man who holds the 10 shot world record for the 1000 yd (heavy gun) class, did it with a 300 WSM cartridge. He is also a PA long range hunter, but for that he uses a 338 Lapua with an improved case. Id be willing to bet that the vast majority of shots taken at animals with that gun are less than a 1000 yds but it handles those very well also.I like to think of myself as a pretty successful deer hunter and have taken roughly 50 deer in the 35 years i have hunted with my best year being 4. In that time the 7mm Rem Mag has carried the load with over 30 of them, and other than the 7mm RM, i have taken 300 -350 yard deer with 300 wsm, 7.62x39, 7x57, 6.5 Creedmoor, and a .243 Savage Stryker target pistol. I think you are overestimating the durability of white tail deer. BTW, my older brother has taken a deer out to 1080 with his 7mm WSM, and it died just fine.

[grouse]

Have done this conversion on a couple rifles. Ptg bolt is your best option. The factory bolt head is thicker and needs a longer firing pin. I have a few extra parts you may need. Pm of interested. You’ll need a Mag and follower for sure.

[yobuck]

I like to think of myself as a pretty successful deer hunter and have taken roughly 50 deer in the 35 years i have hunted with my best year being 4. In that time the 7mm Rem Mag has carried the load with over 30 of them, and other than the 7mm RM, i have taken 300 -350 yard deer with 300 wsm, 7.62x39, 7x57, 6.5 Creedmoor, and a .243 Savage Stryker target pistol. I think you are overestimating the durability of white tail deer. BTW, my older brother has taken a deer out to 1080 with his 7mm WSM, and it died just fine.
Well i think you might be reading into my comments things i actually didnt say.
The most successful hunter ive known used a 7 mm Rem Mag. He killed well over 50 bucks during his hunting career also. It was very important for him to kill a buck every year, and he pretty much did, but he also wasent very fussy over the size of the horns so long as it had them. He also insisted on hunting alone, thinking that if a buck was over there where he was glassing, he would ultimatly find it and it would be his and not someone elses. He also never shot at one much over about 600 yds, because up to that distance he knew he would be very successful.
Fact is the majority of cartridges can do a pretty decent job at those type distances.
And there are also those that can go even further than that like the 7 Rem for example.
But when the distance possibilities at the locations were hunting can exceed 1000 yds, my experience shows its best to have a gun that can easily handle that with enough to go even further if that need should arise.
Two years ago i was invited to a venison dinner at a neibors camp where they also hunt LR.
While having dinner, a guest there who i had known for a few years mentioned to me that he had missed a deer that day.
He also mentioned it was 900 yards. He has been an archery hunter, but recently has been testing the water at long range also.
I asked what he used for the shot, and he replied his new home brewed 7x08 AI.
To which i asked the same question, WHY? because i know they have better guns for those type shots.
He just stared at me for a minit then said i guess because i wanted to use my new gun and not somebody elses.
Then added, anyway John killed one at 750 with his 280AI and my gun is only about 100 fps less than that is.
To which i said well 750 isnt 900, and even 100fps can make some difference.
But you know what? that one was a waste of my energy also.

[Robinhood]

1) Have you considered just getting a Savage bolt head? They tend to work pretty well. SSS
could true and time that action for you up nice.


It is important to remember that the Savage short action push feed magnum bolt head is 1/8th inch longer(9/16") than the 7/16" standard bolt head and requires a modification to the spring stop(not advised) or a longer (correct firing pin) to maintain something close to the factory spring compression lengths. One option I have used was to utilize a long action magnum bolt head. You have to machine the nose to short action length but it is a cheap solution.

[Tahoe1305]

If I’m not mistaken PTG makes a short action magnum bolt head that is meant to use the standard short action firing mechanism without modification. I believe that is what a few folks are referring to. It’s $70. I’ll be reaching out for the offer on extra parts. Thanks grouse.

[Tahoe1305]

Grouse I can’t seem to figure out how to PM you....maybe I don’t have the privileges yet. If you could PM me it would be appreciated.

[grouse]

I think you don’t have enough posts. Tried to pm you. I also have a spare 7mm wsm small shank barrel.

[darkker]

But for elk and bigger game I want a bit more energy. I am assuming you are after my 1000 ft lbs at 1000yds....not intended hunting distance by any means, just a benchmark for higher BC bullets going a certain speed at the muzzle and ability to retain it at further distances. That’s just the benchmark I use on all my rifles for some reason.

thanks for input thus far.

This is a bit of a tangent to your questions, but I think something you should reconsider.
I like you and I assume most folks at the beginning of their adventures, think that same way as that's what all the rags preach. As it relates to bullets and their operation, it's a nonsense invention.

Theoretical energy transfer means nothing to a bullets operation, the only thing that matters is velocity. Even the "softest" jacketed bullets don't reliable operate as intended below about 1700fps; and a good many are dodgy below 2,000 fps. There was an excellent test done some time ago, with photos of the bullets fired into deer.
Article was called: "The Best Hunting Bullet" by Gary Sciuchetti. May want to give it a look. Obviously bullets can kill before that, but when getting that far out, they don't work the way the KE gods would have you believe; and accuracy becomes Paramount.

Cheers

[Tahoe1305]

Guess so. I didn’t see a PM either....I am up on Rokslide and long range hunting forums as well under the same handle. Appreciate the help.

[Tahoe1305]

Agree with you on this and I appreciate the feedback. Again those numbers have less to do with hunting and more to do with me justifying to myself why I need a new gun (realty is my current gun is perfect for all the hunting I do). But alas I am bored and want to build something.

I’ll check out the article!