Powder for 223 and 22-250

[Mr.Snerdly]

Any thoughts on what would be best for accuracy? I think powder may be the least thing affecting it but some say it makes a difference. I have been using 3031 in both and I can't complain but I am out now and have to buy more and thought maybe there might be something better. I hear a lot of people brag on Varget and Benchmark. Also, the CFE 223 but I hear it is affected by temperature quite a bit. Any thoughts on that one? The CFE 223 has an attractive price.

[SageRat Shooter]

I use BLC-2 or H4895 in my 22-250... Running around 33 grains of powder for either one... Average velocity is about 3300 FPS using 55 gr. Hornady Vmax. It'll put 5 in a nickel at 100 yards.

[CFJunkie]

If you are concerned about temperature causing variations in velocity, then consider extreme powders that are essentially temperature insensitive.
You can always find out the velocity change from 0 to 125 degrees F. and figure out the # of fps that change per deg. F.
Once you know what a load does at a particular temperature you can adjust the charge, or the seating depth to compensate and keep the velocity the same for a different temperature.
Or you can just use QuickLOAD and use the temperature compensator to adjust for you.

Note: QuickLOAD recommends you don't use the compensator for extreme powders.
In a .308, Varget changes only 4 fps for the 0 - 125 deg. F. range.
H4895 changes 8 fps.
IMR4166 changes 20 fps.
As a comparison, most temperature sensitive powders change between 120 and 155 fps for the same 0-125 deg F. range.

Note: The fps changes quoted are for the .308.
The fps change per degree is slightly greater for the .22-250 caliber and greater yet for the .223 caliber.

For your .223, powder performance will depend on the bullet weight, at least is does for me.
For bullets from 60 grains and up, I get my best results with powders like Varget, H4895, IMR4166, etc. All of them are temperature insensitive.
For lighter bullets, 50 to 55 grains, I get my best results with faster powders like H335 and N133, both of which are temperature sensitive.
Interestingly, CFE223 works about the same regardless of bullet weight but it is temperature sensitive as well.

For the .22-250 I have always had better results with powders that are normally thought of for my .308s like Reloader 15, IMR4064, H4895, N140, and Varget.

[Ted_Feasel]

Any thoughts on what would be best for accuracy? I think powder may be the least thing affecting it but some say it makes a difference. I have been using 3031 in both and I can't complain but I am out now and have to buy more and thought maybe there might be something better. I hear a lot of people brag on Varget and Benchmark. Also, the CFE 223 but I hear it is affected by temperature quite a bit. Any thoughts on that one? The CFE 223 has an attractive price.On both my 22-250s (one a savage and one a Thompson) both found their accuracy with 38gr of H380 for 55gr pills and 39.5 gr for 62gr penetrators. May have been able to get better but I was content with dime to nickle sized groups@100 yards with a stock rifles

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[Mr.Snerdly]

If you are concerned about temperature causing variations in velocity, then consider extreme powders that are essentially temperature insensitive.
You can always find out the velocity change from 0 to 125 degrees F. and figure out the # of fps that change per deg. F.
Once you know what a load does at a particular temperature you can adjust the charge, or the seating depth to compensate and keep the velocity the same for a different temperature.
Or you can just use QuickLOAD and use the temperature compensator to adjust for you.

Note: QuickLOAD recommends you don't use the compensator for extreme powders.
In a .308, Varget changes only 4 fps for the 0 - 125 deg. F. range.
H4895 changes 8 fps.
IMR4166 changes 20 fps.
As a comparison, most temperature sensitive powders change between 120 and 155 fps for the same 0-125 deg F. range.

Note: The fps changes quoted are for the .308.
The fps change per degree is slightly greater for the .22-250 caliber and greater yet for the .223 caliber.

For your .223, powder performance will depend on the bullet weight, at least is does for me.
For bullets from 60 grains and up, I get my best results with powders like Varget, H4895, IMR4166, etc. All of them are temperature insensitive.
For lighter bullets, 50 to 55 grains, I get my best results with faster powders like H335 and N133, both of which are temperature sensitive.
Interestingly, CFE223 works about the same regardless of bullet weight but it is temperature sensitive as well.

For the .22-250 I have always had better results with powders that are normally thought of for my .308s like Reloader 15, IMR4064, H4895, N140, and Varget.

It sounds like the CFE 223 isn't terrible with a quite a temperature change. I doubt the temperature would vary by more than 35 degrees when I would do my shooting. Obviously, it could be much different if the ammo was out in the sun for a time but I wouldn't do that. If that is all the more it varies with the temperature I believe I will try a pound of the CFE 223 and also either Varget or Benchmark.

[charlie b]

I will second Varget for use with the heavier bullets in my .223. I like that my point of impact doesn't change from week to week and season to season. It is really fun to hit my 'explosive' targets on the first round of the day (MOA size targets). Out here in the SW the ammo can get a bit toasty, as does the rifle barrel.

[celltech]

For me I don't get the velocities I want from Varget...so I use H4895 for anything from 53-80gr in .223. I also use it for .22-250 with lighter bullets and switch to H4350 for 75+gr pills. And for what it's worth I use H4895 in .308 as well.

[Bill2905]

For 223, I use both H322 and W748 and get decent results. I use more W748 with the 60 and 69 grain bullets because it is slower burning but it works well with the lighter bullets also.

[wyosam]

I use 24g RL15 with 73gr eldm in my 223, and get great results. For lighter bullets, I like 24.8g benchmark under53g vmax. I’ve also had good results with h335 under the vmax, but I prefer to work with extruded powder vs ball.


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[Ted_Feasel]

Dang lol, I must be the only fool using H380[emoji854]

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[jpx2rk]

Dang lol, I must be the only fool using H380[emoji854]

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Naw, I use H380 with 53gr Noslers & Vmax's, around .5 moa on a good day. :cool:

I've tried RL15 in both calibers, got decent results. Just yesterday I shot 62g FBHP and 60g vmax with RL15 & AR Comp, got decent results with 3 shot groups for the first round of testing in the FV12 223

[Ted_Feasel]

Naw, I use H380 with 53gr Noslers & Vmax's, around .5 moa on a good day. :cool:

I've tried RL15 in both calibers, got decent results. Just yesterday I shot 62g FBHP and 60g vmax with RL15 & AR Comp, got decent results with 3 shot groups for the first round of testing in the FV12 223Awesome, my Thompson gets around 1/2 moa 38gr h380 and 55gr hornady pills. That was 1st load I tried and was content so never tried any others:)

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[CFJunkie]

Ted

Is that with a 1:12 twist .22-250?

I have two .22-250s (a Remington 700 that is 1:14 twist and a Savage 11 VT that is 1:12 twist).
The 1-12 shoots the 55 grain bullets best but the 1:14 shoots the 50 to 53 grain bullets best.

In the 1:14 twist, the 52 & 53 grain bullets average 0.383 for 838 groups with a variety of bullets and powders.
Best load average was 0.252 with N150 powder (that surprised me) using Berger 52 grain 22408 FB bullets and the worst load average was 0.631 with H380 powder (that also surprised me) and Sierra 52 grain SMK #1410 bullets.
With N140 powder the 52 SMKs average 0.300 exactly.
The 53 grain Sierra SMK FB #1400 bullets average 0.307 with a variety of powders with a best load average of 0.284 with H4895 powder.

The 55 grain bullets average 0.622 for 166 groups at 100 yards with a variety of bullets and multiple powders.
The best load average was 0.495 with Reloader-15 powder and Berger 55 grain #22408 FB bullets.

The 50 grain bullets average 0.499 for 126 groups with multiple bullets but only with Reloader-15 powder.
The best load average was 0.438 with Reloader-15 powder and Berger 50 grain #22406 FB bullets.

That is quite a difference between the 50 grain, the 52-53 grain, and the 55 grain bullets for only 2 to 3 grains of bullet weight, don't you think?
I wouldn't have thought that the difference from 1:12 to 1:14 twist would be that sensitive.
I have about 5,000 rounds through that old Remington 700 and it still prefers the 52-53 grain bullets.
Maybe it is more about that particular barrel's preferences for 52-53 grain bullets than the difference in the twist.

[Ted_Feasel]

Ted

Is that with a 1:12 twist .22-250?

I have two .22-250s (a Remington 700 that is 1:14 twist and a Savage 11 VT that is 1:12 twist).
The 1-12 shoots the 55 grain bullets best but the 1:14 shoots the 50 to 53 grain bullets best.

In the 1:14 twist, the 52 & 53 grain bullets average 0.383 for 838 groups with a variety of bullets and powders.
Best load average was 0.252 with N150 powder (that surprised me) using Berger 52 grain 22408 FB bullets and the worst load average was 0.631 with H380 powder (that also surprised me) and Sierra 52 grain SMK #1410 bullets.
With N140 powder the 52 SMKs average 0.300 exactly.
The 53 grain Sierra SMK FB #1400 bullets average 0.307 with a variety of powders with a best load average of 0.284 with H4895 powder.

The 55 grain bullets average 0.622 for 166 groups at 100 yards with a variety of bullets and multiple powders.
The best load average was 0.495 with Reloader-15 powder and Berger 55 grain #22408 FB bullets.

The 50 grain bullets average 0.499 for 126 groups with multiple bullets but only with Reloader-15 powder.
The best load average was 0.438 with Reloader-15 powder and Berger 50 grain #22406 FB bullets.

That is quite a difference between the 50 grain, the 52-53 grain, and the 55 grain bullets for only 2 to 3 grains of bullet weight, don't you think?
I wouldn't have thought that the difference from 1:12 to 1:14 twist would be that sensitive.
I have about 5,000 rounds through that old Remington 700 and it still prefers the 52-53 grain bullets.
Maybe it is more about that particular barrel's preferences for 52-53 grain bullets than the difference in the twist.Yes, my TC is 1/12.. it seems to handle up to 62 gr pills accurately

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[stomp442]

IMR 4064 has always given me great results in both calibers. I have found 4064 to give me better accuracy and consistency than Varget 9 times out of 10 and its cheaper and easier to find.

[jim_k]

Nothing wrong with 3031. The others mentioned are also good. H322 isn't used enough. Benchmark is very similar to H322, and both are temp stable. Metering and measuring are easy with BenMrk and H322. I've gotten great accuracy with W748, but it will get too hot in the summer. H4895 seems to work in everything, and holds up for long strings. Ditto for Varget.

[Jester560]

I am running 38gr of H380 under 55gr Nosler ballistic tip varmint bullets. This combo makes darn near 1 hole groups out of my 22-250.

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[Texas10]

I get real good results with IMR 3031 in my 223 shooting light bullets. The 53 V-Max is doing 3350 fps at 25.2 grs and drilling very small groups. Great powder, always available, and among the least expensive. For heavier bullets I go with Varget.

In my 22-250 I preferred H4350 but it was an 8 twist shooting 80 gr SMKs, so not a good comparison but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

[hardnosestreetcop]

Any thoughts on what would be best for accuracy? I think powder may be the least thing affecting it but some say it makes a difference. I have been using 3031 in both and I can't complain but I am out now and have to buy more and thought maybe there might be something better. I hear a lot of people brag on Varget and Benchmark. Also, the CFE 223 but I hear it is affected by temperature quite a bit. Any thoughts on that one? The CFE 223 has an attractive price.

MR. Snerdly there are many factors that will effect accuracy IE how the chamber is cut, the twist rate, how the brass was prepared, the components being used, the CBTO measurement. In your case you have two different pieces of brass with two different powder columns which burn powder differently. The 22-250 is a overbore ( a necked down 250 Savage) where the 223 Remington is not. As a general rule overbores perform best with the heaviest bullets and slow burning powders, IE 22-250, 243 win, 257 Roberts,260 Remington, 264 Win Mag, 270 Winchester, 280 Remington,7MM RM, 300 Win Mag, 350 Rem Mag just to name a few. My recommendation to you is develop your loads base on the characteristics of each case. The overbores have been called barrel burners because a large column of slow burning powder pushing a light weight bullet down a smaller bore. Now in my case of 243 Win a 100 Gr bullet and IMR-4350, or my 7MM RM 160 gr bullet with RL-19 or IMR-4831.

[Ted_Feasel]

MR. Snerdly there are many factors that will effect accuracy IE how the chamber is cut, the twist rate, how the brass was prepared, the components being used, the CBTO measurement. In your case you have two different pieces of brass with two different powder columns which burn powder differently. The 22-250 is a overbore ( a necked down 250 Savage) where the 223 Remington is not. As a general rule overbores perform best with the heaviest bullets and slow burning powders, IE 22-250, 243 win, 257 Roberts, 264 Win Mag, 7MM RM, 300 Win Mag, 350 Rem Mag just to name a few. My recommendation to you is develop you loads base on the characteristics of each case. The overbores have been called barrel burners because a large column of slow burning powder pushing a light weight bullet down a smaller bore. Now in my case of 243 Win a 100 Gr bullet and IMR-4350, or my 7MM RM 160 gr bullet with RL-19 or IMR-4831.I assume you are looking for 223 win loads and not 5.56 NATO? either way I have had excellent results from imr 8208 xbr

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