Extreme Spread?? Poor accuracy.

[deertroy1]

I've been having an issue with excessive extreme spread in my ammo. My rifle is a Savage M11 Trophy Hunter XP with an aftermarket 6mm Rem McGowen barrel pillar beaded in a Boyds Stock.
After trying hundreds of combinations with this gun I cannot get anything below 1 MOA and velocities almost always vary by 50 -100 fps for three shots.
I'm very meticulous with my loads. Headspace is about 0.001" - 0.002" on my sized cases. Bullet runout is 0 - 0.002".

The gun really craters primers even with mild loads. I tried increasing the radius of the firing pin and it helped but did not eliminate the cratering. I increased the radius some more but then the ammo failed to fire. I decreased the radius but the cratering returned. Firing pin protrusion is 0.053" and is not adjustable (one piece firing pin).

This rifle was originally a 243 Win and I checked my notes and even when it was new with the factory barrel it was giving velocities with a high ES which leads me to believe it is firing pin/spring related.

I spoke with one gunsmith who said this action with the one piece firing pin is no good and suggested I get rid of it.
Is it possible to replace the one piece firing pin assembly with the two piece assembly? Any other thoughts?

[Stumpkiller]

As it is the same one-piece firing pin as used in the M10, M12 and M16 I would bet the firing pin is not at the root of your problem.

[deertroy1]

As it is the same one-piece firing pin as used in the M10, M12 and M16 I would bet the firing pin is not at the root of your problem.

I thought those actions had a two piece firing pin? Mine looks like this:

https://i.imgur.com/SNb7Omal.jpg

[sharpshooter]

You have a classic example of insufficient ignition. Yes, you change the firing pin assembly to the conventional style, but you will also need the cocking sleeve.

[charlie b]

I guess I would ask why you think the velocity extreme spread is the cause of the group size? Is the group spread in the vertical axis only? If it is 1MOA wide as well then the es is not your problem.

[deertroy1]

I guess I would ask why you think the velocity extreme spread is the cause of the group size? Is the group spread in the vertical axis only? If it is 1MOA wide as well then the es is not your problem.

It may not be related. However, Sharpshooter says this is an inferior system. That is reason enough for me to change it right there.

[deertroy1]

You have a classic example of insufficient ignition. Yes, you change the firing pin assembly to the conventional style, but you will also need the cocking sleeve.

My rifle started out as a 243 Win M11 Trophy Hunter even though it has a one piece Axis style firing pin. So I take it the bolt body is the same as what's used with the two piece firing pin bolts and thus the parts will work?

I'm from Canada so Midway will not ship here. Numrich will. However, they list four different firing pin assemblies for SA Savage 10/11/16. They are: 1349260B (https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1349260B), 1349260D (https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1349260D), 1349260G (https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1349260G) and 1349260H (https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1349260H). 1349260G (https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1349260G). Does anyone know which one I'll need?
Also, is the BAS the same or do I need a new one? I also don't know what part 12F is in the schematic (https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/savstevspgfld/rifles-sav/10-series/10gyxp3?page=2)?

Actually Numrich doesn't have the part either so I'll try Savage. I just want to make sure I have the right parts as there seem to be so many variations. I'm in Canada so returning is not an option! I also want to make sure I have everything the first time as there is a min of $25 shipping!

[Dave Hoback]

Those pins are all the same. (Look at the PN# 1349260 (tel:1349260)) I guess the letter postfix is a clerical thing?? But they are the same for Short action... Only difference is Short action & Long action.

But you also need the sleeve. The part I circled in the picture. These are difficult to find anymore. You can use your BAS, but I would fill the hole. Actually, it’s a good start to doing a Lift Kit, which you will probably want at some point.

https://i.ibb.co/9ptFZCs/2-C2-EF1-B0-EDF2-486-C-AB37-D93-B88487-EA7.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[deertroy1]

Those pins are all the same. (Look at the PN# 1349260 (tel:1349260)) I guess the letter postfix is a clerical thing?? But they are the same for Short action... Only difference is Short action & Long action.

But you also need the sleeve. The part I circled in the picture. These are difficult to find anymore. You can use your BAS, but I would fill the hole. Actually, it’s a good start to doing a Lift Kit, which you will probably want at some point.

https://i.ibb.co/9ptFZCs/2-C2-EF1-B0-EDF2-486-C-AB37-D93-B88487-EA7.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Thanks Dave, that's all I need to know. Next is to call Savage.

[deertroy1]

Called Savage. They'll only ship restricted parts to gun dealer/gunsmith..............no more waiver!

[GaCop]

Called Savage. They'll only ship restricted parts to gun dealer/gunsmith..............no more waiver! That's right. I needed replacement firing pin springs for my Axis and had to order them through my LGS. With shipping cost was $14.00 for the springs and spacer.

[deertroy1]

That's right. I needed replacement firing pin springs for my Axis and had to order them through my LGS. With shipping cost was $14.00 for the springs and spacer.

You're lucky. Minimum shipping to Canada is $25. My gunsmith is in BC and I'm in Nova Scotia! $$$

[Spudgun]

i have a Model 12 in 6.5 CM.

I was cratering my primers and in some cases even piercing them.

After reading and some research I discovered that if the hole in the bolt face is too big for the firing in it will cause the firing pin to wiggle upon hitting the primer and cause piercing.

I reload all my ammo and found the CCI 450 SRP were the issue. The metal at the base of the primers is really thin. Changed to the CCI 41 primers (Mil Spec) and problems went away.

Just say'n

[deertroy1]

The hole should be good as it's a PTG bolt head, but you never know!

[Spudgun]

The hole should be good as it's a PTG bolt head, but you never know!

I wish I could load the pictures of my primers before I went to the CCI 41's.

They looked like a over pressure load. I use the same load now with the heavy primers and they all look normal and have not cratered or pierce a primer since.

Not saying you have this issue, but I was posting on accurateshooter.com forum and someone put a link up to a gunsmith that will correct this issue with the bolt head that i have on my Savage 12 F/V.

Figured I would try the heavy primers and it worked for me.

Good luck

Larry