Sizing Dies - Bushing or Non-Bushing?

[Bill2905]

I'm about to invest in some 6 BR brass and dies. I think I understand the pros and cons of bushing vs. non-bushing sizers but it never hurts to ask for opinions.

Aside from the higher initial cost, are there any compelling reasons not to go with a bushing die?

[Ted_Feasel]

I'm about to invest in some 6 BR brass and dies. I think I understand the pros and cons of bushing vs. non-bushing sizers but it never hurts to ask for opinions.

Aside from the higher initial cost, are there any compelling reasons not to go with a bushing die?I cannot think of any reason to not use bushing dies.. even in my AR brass that I full length resize I afterwards use a bushing neck size/shoulder bump to get shoulders identical down to the .001.. it's a pain and some would say not worth it on AR but these are precision ARs that many bolt gun shooters would do a double take when they saw how accurate they are.. so definitely, I cannot think of any reason for not using bushings to get setback you want and the tension you want. Just my take.

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[Robinhood]

I agree with using full length dies with a bushing or bushing with a bump die. It allows you to get the correct neck tension without goofing up the RO with a button. The best die I have ever used was a lee full length sizer I honed to the desired tension and removed the decapping pin and button.

[Ted_Feasel]

I agree with using full length dies with a bushing or bushing with a bump die. It allows you to get the correct neck tension without goofing up the RO with a button. The best die I have ever used was a lee full length sizer I honed to the desired tension and removed the decapping pin and button.I use full length forsters on all my AR brass but then use bushing/bumps to get the exact shoulder setback the same on all the cases and to get enough neck tension that I dont need to put a crimp on. Most suggest to use a mild taper on AR rounds because the cycle is so violent but I've found if you use about .001 less then you would for a bolt rifle then they seem to hold, for example, I use a .332 for my bolt rifle and the brand of brass I like (I hold that back so we dont start any brass wars lmbo) but I use .331 to squeeze down the necks of my AR 308 after a FL resize with my forster dies. Maybe overkill but it seems to work and I dont get any pills getting seated deeper by going into battery.

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[Bill2905]

I agree with using full length dies with a bushing or bushing with a bump die. It allows you to get the correct neck tension without goofing up the RO with a button. The best die I have ever used was a lee full length sizer I honed to the desired tension and removed the decapping pin and button.

If my brass thickness is fairly consistent, can I get away with using a full length bushing die with the decapping pin and button removed?

I like the idea of using a custom honed full length sizer. I inquired with Forster but their current production run of 6mm BR dies is currently 3-4 months out. Same story with Whidden.

I need to get dies within the next few weeks to assemble dummy rounds for a Shilen barrel order that is in the production queue.

[Robinhood]

For competition or match grade ammo you will be using quality brass or turned brass with consistent wall thickness. So in my opinion yes. Make sure your setup is producing low TIR and anneal. I have Widden and Forster that give neck RO and in the same press a Hornady die produces .0002 or less. Sometimes you win sometimes you loose. I never have RO issues with a Lee Collet Die. I don't normally use them though, I want my shoulders where I want them. I have used them to expand the necks if I don't have the bushing I want or if there are necks that are not round.

[Ted_Feasel]

If my brass thickness is fairly consistent, can I get away with using a full length bushing die with the decapping pin and button removed?

I like the idea of using a custom honed full length sizer. I inquired with Forster but their current production run of 6mm BR dies is currently 3-4 months out. Same story with Whidden.

I need to get dies within the next few weeks to assemble dummy rounds for a Shilen barrel order that is in the production queue.Awesome, happy to hear you have a shilen coming.. you'll love it.. I have several in AR and bolt rifles and they will put them through the same hole at 100 yards. Did you get the s/s ? The top grade select match? Even if you didn't they are still sub half MOA barrels just the select hand lapped are so easy to clean.. they actually sing when you push a tight soaked patch down them..what rifling did you go with.. lol you can probably tell I'm a shilen whore followed closely by criterion hehehehe. I have devore fully resized my bolt action brass only next sized and shoulder bumped only my AR platforms do I full length resize

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[Ted_Feasel]

For competition or match grade ammo you will be using quality brass or turned brass with consistent wall thickness. So in my opinion yes. Make sure your setup is producing low TIR and anneal. I have Widden and Forster that give neck RO and in the same press a Hornady die produces .0002 or less. Sometimes you win sometimes you loose. I never have RO issues with a Lee Collet Die. I don't normally use them though, I want my shoulders where I want them. I have used them to expand the necks if I don't have the bushing I want or if there are necks that are not round.Can't overlook le Wilson chamber dies they make some awesome seating dies I've never tried their sizing dies for full length but I've tried their bushing and own a few of their seating dies. They can also custom cut seating in sizing dies for you

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[Bill2905]

Awesome, happy to hear you have a shilen coming.. you'll love it.. I have several in AR and bolt rifles and they will put them through the same hole at 100 yards. Did you get the s/s ? The top grade select match? Even if you didn't they are still sub half MOA barrels just the select hand lapped are so easy to clean.. they actually sing when you push a tight soaked patch down them..what rifling did you go with.. lol you can probably tell I'm a shilen whore followed closely by criterion hehehehe. I have devore fully resized my bolt action brass only next sized and shoulder bumped only my AR platforms do I full length resize

I ordered a 26" stainless Match Select bull barrel contour with 12 twist. My intention is to shoot 65-80 grain bullets at 100-300 yards. I plan to submit dummy rounds with the Berger 68 grain FB target bullet.

[Ted_Feasel]

I ordered a 26" stainless Match Select bull barrel contour with 12 twist. My intention is to shoot 65-80 grain bullets at 100-300 yards. I plan to submit dummy rounds with the Berger 68 grain FB target bullet.Awesome... I LOVE my shilens[emoji4]

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[Axlrod]

If my brass thickness is fairly consistent, can I get away with using a full length bushing die with the decapping pin and button removed?

I like the idea of using a custom honed full length sizer. I inquired with Forster but their current production run of 6mm BR dies is currently 3-4 months out. Same story with Whidden.

I need to get dies within the next few weeks to assemble dummy rounds for a Shilen barrel order that is in the production queue.
Don't know if this is what you are looking for but Midway has a Whidden bushing set https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019750486?pid=515362
and a bushing sizer by itself https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012683832?pid=545004

[NicfromAlabama]

You can also send three fired casings to Harrell's Precsion. It is my understanding they have dies in several size increments. They send you a die in the best size for your case. Supposedly they are optimized for Lapua brass. It is a bushing die. If I ever get around to firing my 6mm BR, that is what I plan to do.

[Bill2905]

You can also send three fired casings to Harrell's Precsion. It is my understanding they have dies in several size increments. They send you a die in the best size for your case. Supposedly they are optimized for Lapua brass. It is a bushing die. If I ever get around to firing my 6mm BR, that is what I plan to do.

Since I don't even have a barrel yet, that won't be an option at this time. However, I may consider Harrel's down the road. Thanks.

[Bill2905]

I agree with using full length dies with a bushing or bushing with a bump die. It allows you to get the correct neck tension without goofing up the RO with a button. The best die I have ever used was a lee full length sizer I honed to the desired tension and removed the decapping pin and button.

If I'm using a full length die with a bushing, can I adjust this die in the press to get my desired shoulder bump just like I would with a non-bushing full length sizer? Does this adjustment have any effect on the neck sizing action of the bushing?

[Texas10]

I've got a couple of RCBS Gold Medal dies, one for 6BR. It arrives with two decapping pin retaining nuts. One with an expander to size new brass, and one without for follow on use.

You can also set the bushing depth so you leave a portion of the neck unchanged so that fit into the chamber is more uniform.

[Ted_Feasel]

If I'm using a full length die with a bushing, can I adjust this die in the press to get my desired shoulder bump just like I would with a non-bushing full length sizer? Does this adjustment have any effect on the neck sizing action of the bushing?That I dont know, I have never used fl size bushing dies.. I've thought about it as it would eliminate a step on my AR brass. Right now I FL resize then squeeze the neck down and make shoulders identical using a seperate bushing neck die.. if I could do it all In one step that would be nice.. right now just fl size only on my AR brass only get shoulders within a couple thou of eachother.. i like to get them exact to .001 .. a little overkill probably, probably just my OCD but I'd love it if I could get a FL and bushing die in one that could do that in one step

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[bigedp51]

I'm about to invest in some 6 BR brass and dies. I think I understand the pros and cons of bushing vs. non-bushing sizers but it never hurts to ask for opinions.

Aside from the higher initial cost, are there any compelling reasons not to go with a bushing die?


Bushing dies work best with custom tight neck chambers and neck turned brass. So it depends on your chamber neck diameter and your case neck thickness.

With a standard off the shelf factory rifle with a SAAMI chamber using a bushing die and neck turning means the case neck will expand that mush more when fired. And this may work the brass even more when sizing and reducing the neck diameter even with a bush die.

The Redding bushing die FAQ tells you if the neck thickness varies .002 or more then use the expander that comes with their dies. Meaning Redding wants you to push the thickness variations to the outside of the case neck if you decide not to neck turn.

At the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases using non-bushing full length dies.

I'm a big fan of Forster benchrest dies because all my rifles have factory SAAMI chambers. And the Forster dies produce less neck runout than bushing dies.

Below the 6.5 Guys give high marks for the honed Forster dies. None of my Forster dies have honed necks and they will work with any brand of brass and neck thickness.

Weekly Gear Update - 036 Forster Honed Dies


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac3iDJxDgxk


(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac3iDJxDgxk)

[Robinhood]

A full length sizing die weather it is bushing or not will bump a shoulder.

[Ted_Feasel]

Bushing dies work best with custom tight neck chambers and neck turned brass. So it depends on your chamber neck diameter and your case neck thickness.

With a standard off the shelf factory rifle with a SAAMI chamber using a bushing die and neck turning means the case neck will expand that mush more when fired. And this may work the brass even more when sizing and reducing the neck diameter even with a bush die.

The Redding bushing die FAQ tells you if the neck thickness varies .002 or more then use the expander that comes with their dies. Meaning Redding wants you to push the thickness variations to the outside of the case neck if you decide not to neck turn.

At the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases using non-bushing full length dies.

I'm a big fan of Forster benchrest dies because all my rifles have factory SAAMI chambers. And the Forster dies produce less neck runout than bushing dies.

Below the 6.5 Guys give high marks for the honed Forster dies. None of my Forster dies have honed necks and they will work with any brand of brass and neck thickness.

Weekly Gear Update - 036 Forster Honed Dies


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac3iDJxDgxk


(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac3iDJxDgxk)I can definitely agree on forster fl resizing dies, imo I feel they give the best consistent sizing and I've tried pretty much every die out there. Pretty much all my rifles both bolt action and ARs have shilen and criterion match chambers.. I have not seen any difference at 100 yards, but extended range.. I can measure the difference on paper

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[Fuj']

The best die I have ever used was a lee full length sizer I honed to the desired tension and removed the decapping pin and button.

That is what I do. My current Creedmoor FL Lee die is honed
close to chamber, and neck honed to -.001 of my mandrel.
It makes it feel like there is no resistance in the sizing operation.