Seating dies, competition dies ,custom

[mikeinco]

i do not know what bullets you use, but it is well known that production bullets VARY in tip length, easily to .015" or more.
i cannot reccommend your methods to anyone.
i had a lot of sierra 52 hp's that were 2 separate lots from two runs. completely DIFFERENT oals.
sierra admitted their error and said they no longer mix bullet RUN lots IN ONE BOX
it is the very reason we DO NOT seat from the tip of a rifle bullet.
your method is NOT COMMON USEAGE in any precision rifle loading



Mike,

Thanks. Except I do measure OAL, not to ogive. I find with most bullets I use the measurements give the same basic results since the bullet tip to ogive is the same. Maybe if you get into the .001" tolerances there is some difference, but, I have not felt the need to go there, nor do most reloaders.

Yes, except for those in the extreme portions of shooting (like precision long range and bench rest) that .020 off the lands is a safe number. Too many inexperienced reloaders will try to emulate someone who loads closer to the lands without really knowing how to do it.

Keep in mind when I say 'most' people I mean the total number of reloaders, not 'most' precision long range or bench rest shooters. If someone is in here asking questions I classify them in the former group, not the latter, unless they present information that proves otherwise.

[charlie b]

Thanks Mike :)

[Stumpkiller]

This is one reason why I do not like things like the Hornady gage system. Every bullet ogive is slightly different shape. To really find out where to seat a bullet you need to insert the bullet to touch the lands and then measure the OAL of the cartridge. Then adjust your seating die to whatever 'jump' you want, measuring the OAL of the cartridge.

You just described how the Hornady Lock-n-Load OAL Gauge works (formerly the Stoney Point OAL Gauge). You can even send them one of your fired cases or tap it yourself for precise results. They do know what they're doing at Hornady. ;-)

Once you get the OAL length figured out the other products let you tweak and repeat when switching dies or different bullet makes/weights.

[mikeinco]

just to be clear, the entire reason the stonypoint/hornady/sinclair tools are on the market, is because it is well known
that bullets vary a lot in over all length, and that sorting/measuring by ogive length is much more precise and repeatable.
"oal" ( over all length) is seldom used in precision ammo,unless magazine length is an issue.
base to ogive is used in precision ammo.

[sharpshooter]

69gen,
sort out 5 bullets with the same ogive length.
prep 5 cases and seat the bullets.

if the cartridge base to ogive length is not the same
there is something wrong with your PROCESS


There's nothing wrong with the process, the problem is in the bullets. The discrepancy in length is from the ogive to the diameter of where the bullet seater stem contacts. I run into the same problem with Berger 105 VLD's. Measure from base to ogive, and they're less than .001".....but when you measure from base to where the seater stem contacts, the length varied up to .010".
It was easy to check, it just so happened that a .20 cal comparator landed in the same spot as the seater stem.
After a lot of frustration and 3 different seater dies later, I tried some Bart's 105 RBT and they all seated the same ogive length, which told me that is was in the BULLETS.

[69gen1]

There's nothing wrong with the process, the problem is in the bullets. The discrepancy in length is from the ogive to the diameter of where the bullet seater stem contacts. I run into the same problem with Berger 105 VLD's. Measure from base to ogive, and they're less than .001".....but when you measure from base to where the seater stem contacts, the length varied up to .010".
It was easy to check, it just so happened that a .20 cal comparator landed in the same spot as the seater stem.
After a lot of frustration and 3 different seater dies later, I tried some Bart's 105 RBT and they all seated the same ogive length, which told me that is was in the BULLETS.

That was my initial assumption to sharpshooter was hard to explain so are u suggesting a custom seater so they hit
at the same spot if that's it , wouldn't you need that for every different lot of the same bullit .. barts are way out of my needs but I have read some of the reviews.when I done last setup i measured from base to ogive and i also measured base to tip within. 001 and they came out great . My seater stem is hollowed out and is not touching the tip anytime in the process . but probably is hitting a different spot
below the tip that is little longer than the initial bullit I used in setup. More than likely even if i sorted base to ogive and not pay any attention to the oal they would be off..

[sharpshooter]

My initial idea was to modify a seater stem to contact the bullet closer to the ogive, but it is easier said than done. To get the seater to contact closer to the ogive, it has to have a knife edge, not only leaving it weak and fragile, but also it causing a wedging effect, making it expand when seating a bullet. I finally came to the conclusion that the seater stem had to contact farther up the bullet for strength to keep it from wedging. The solution I came up with is to measure the bullets from base to the seater stem datum, and sort them accordingly. Once they were sorted by that length, I would start with the shortest ones and adjust the die for those, and then progress to the longer ones and adjust the die until all were the same ogive length.

[69gen1]

My initial idea was to modify a seater stem to contact the bullet closer to the ogive, but it is easier said than done. To get the seater to contact closer to the ogive, it has to have a knife edge, not only leaving it weak and fragile, but also it causing a wedging effect, making it expand when seating a bullet. I finally came to the conclusion that the seater stem had to contact farther up the bullet for strength to keep it from wedging. The solution I came up with is to measure the bullets from base to the seater stem datum, and sort them accordingly. Once they were sorted by that length, I would start with the shortest ones and adjust the die for those, and then progress to the longer ones and adjust the die until all were the same ogive length.

Thanks sharpshooter I was afraid u say something like that probably more effort than what the benefits would be for me so I will continue to measure base to ogive and their oal and sort as close as possible.makes me feel better anyway no what's happening

[Iowa Fox]

I've tried a lot of them, Wilson with arbor press, standar seater, Redding competition and Forster. Out of everything the Forster give me the most consistent base to ogive with least amount of run out. All Measured with good tools. I've found Presses make a big difference as I'm a press collector also. I like the Forster seater with the micrometer but the standard seater is the same less the micrometer top.