New bolt lift kit?

[mnbogboy2]

Robin I think i agree with Dave on this one. By taking the top off this tit that is less "over cocking".
By bringing the whole shelf down (small amount at a time) also decreases overcocking. This can be watched by checking bolt closing when the cocking pin catches the sear.
Taking the shelf down too much results in scrap bolt body (don't ask). This does not affect pin fall as pin measurement and sear to pin stop are not affected.
I'm sure sharpshooter will be glad to enlighten us on this again.��

[Robinhood]

I don't have a problem with reducing that hump, I am stating that I don't believe it lessens cocking effort. You might impact the last 5 degrees( Totally random number) but your not going to reduce cocking effort. If you back off on the cocking piece you have not lessened the lift you are delaying the engagement of the cocking piece pin. If you are relying on the reduction of that hump to alter amount the firing pin is cocked, I believe you are barking up the wrong tree.

I could be wrong. I didn't make that up though. Lots of custom actions are the same way. My post was based on the study of actions and what there makers do to solve issues.

I do believe the Savage could be over sprung but I am not sure I am in the Over cocked camp. If I'm wrong it would not be the first time.

[mnbogboy2]

Agree Robinhood, I realize the cocking force is the same, just a reduction of duration of lift. What trimming the hump and "lowering" the shelf does is reduces the distance it takes before the sear resets. If you go too far the sear will not reset.
So what I should have said the cocking stroke will be slightly shorter and the spring won't be compressed much farther than it takes to reset the sear.

[Robinhood]

Agreed. I do use Kretex on mine to smooth the transition but I don't take much off. Have you ever noticed a change in the close after removing some of the hump? Like a stop where the lugs start to engage?

[Dave Hoback]

I for one am interested in that Video.

Quick Vid. Got my daughter to record. I just installed a new PTG bolt today as well. Was working on machining a Titanium firing pin assembly, but getting pushed back. So I just put the stock pin/hardware back in the bolt with the new head. I am very pleased. Smooth, light actuation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sDyuqH6kNQ&feature=youtu.be

[mnbogboy2]

Quick Vid. Got my daughter to record. I just installed a new PTG bolt today as well. Was working on machining a Titanium firing pin assembly, but getting pushed back. So I just put the stock pin/hardware back in the bolt with the new head. I am very pleased. Smooth, light actuation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sDyuqH6kNQ&feature=youtu.be

Very nice Dave, I'm impressed. Stock spring too? Or shortened?

[Robinhood]

Thanks Dave.

[Dave Hoback]

Very nice Dave, I'm impressed. Stock spring too? Or shortened?

Shortened just a couple coils. And tested with no light primer strikes. But it’s temporary. I’m looking for a replacement chrome-silicon spring in a shorter length, but slightly thicker coils. And eventually I’ll get around to turning down the Ti rod I have to make a new firing pin, bolt head retaining pin & pin stop/adjustment nut. (Maybe)
But it’s all working well like this so I am a happy camper. Thanks bogboy. And thank you Robin.

[BigBabyMoses06]

Damn.....thats nice.

[Chris3.Drums]

very smooth

[JeepsAndGuns]

Looks just like my timed and trued actions with my lift kit (replacing the loose 38 spl case with a more snug fit model). They are all pretty much 1 finger operation. I need to take a couple pictures of mine.
Not sure what firing pin springs Fred puts in the ones he T&T's, but I know it is not factory springs, as they all are flat wire springs.

[jkv45]

Looks just like my timed and trued actions with my lift kit (replacing the loose 38 spl case with a more snug fit model). They are all pretty much 1 finger operation. I need to take a couple pictures of mine.
Not sure what firing pin springs Fred puts in the ones he T&T's, but I know it is not factory springs, as they all are flat wire springs.
Is the firing pin spring the cause of most of the resistance? Does it need to be as strong as it is?

Is there are reduced rate spring available?

I realize there are a few factors involved, but it would seem the tension from the firing pin spring would be one of the major ones.

Thanks.

[Robinhood]

Is the firing pin spring the cause of most of the resistance? Does it need to be as strong as it is?

Is there are reduced rate spring available?

I realize there are a few factors involved, but it would seem the tension from the firing pin spring would be one of the major ones.

Thanks.

Probably not. What is happening is the BAS is holding the Cocking Sleeve in position. The Cocking Sleeve captures the Spring on the rear of the Firing Pin and the Firing Pin stop captures it on the front end. As you lift the bolt the Cocking Piece is pulling the Firing Pin rearward and compressing the firing pin spring against the Cocking Sleeve. This spring force against a being applied to a rotating piece(BAS) that turns against the static piece(Cocking sleeve). The diameter of contact is just under7/16ths of an inch

Reducing the contact area and the drag by centering the contact point with a typical lift kit helps but it also adds to the spring compression due to the increase in space between the Cocking Sleeve and the BAS. This is why you must space the BAS or reduce the length of the BAS. This way you maintain the factory spring force and benefit from the lift kit.

So why not adjust the Cocking Piece or cut the spring. Simple: You don't want to affect primer ignition. There is a plethora of information on the topic if you look for it and things like the firing pin diameter and firing pin travel can affect the energy required.

[Dave Hoback]

Is the firing pin spring the cause of most of the resistance? Does it need to be as strong as it is?

Is there are reduced rate spring available?

I realize there are a few factors involved, but it would seem the tension from the firing pin spring would be one of the major ones.

Thanks.

I agree with Robin. But something you mentioned is also correct. There are indeed, a few factors involved. I looked, operated, tore it apart... and I did the things that seemed logical. I’ve repeated the smooth operation many times. I’m sure some doubted. Hopefully the vid dispels any disbelief.

Law for cutting the spring, it’s not my preferred method in modifying. Triggers for example. I don’t CUT springs...I replace them them with the correct length & spring rate I’m looking for. As I said, it was done in this case only, as I could not find an adequate replacement. I am now in the process of designing my own & having a spring manufacturer make them.

But won’t be complete until I have completed the the Titanium firing pin project. And I am still looking into a Tungsten Carbide surface of the BAS, for the ball bearing to ride against. I believe I have an idea for that.