Can you get useful data shooting 3 round groups?

[hamiltonkiler]

One question I have for you is that when you say "useful data", what exactly are you going for? What is your use for the data gathered? Hunting within 200 yards? Target shooting out to 600 or 1k?

Shooting mid-range F class I can tell you that I've had plenty of consistent .25MOA loads at 100 yards that started to open up quite a bit at 600 (no wind). There are several threads on barrel harmonics, SD and ES over at the accurate shooter forum that make my head hurt and explain how if you're shooting at a longer distance, a 100yd group by itself is not a good indicator of the performance further out.

Yes yes yes. Lighter bullets seem to stabilize quick and work better at 100yds heavier bullets and loads don’t seem as tight close but really buck the wind and gain stability out on the range.


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[mikeinco]

heavier bullets and loads don’t seem as tight close but really buck the wind and gain stability out on the range.


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not true and documented
read some current ballistics books.
my 300 win mag shot right at .315/316 at 200 yards with 200 plus gr bullets(benchrest rifle)

[Robinhood]

Yes yes yes. Lighter bullets seem to stabilize quick and work better at 100yds heavier bullets and loads don’t seem as tight close but really buck the wind and gain stability out on the range.


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Mike, Can you offer more information. I agree with the "seem" term Hamiltonkiler used. Not as a position but I can see how it "seems" to be true. For those of us who have other responsibilities outside of shooting, could you spend some time educating us rather than telling us we are wrong.

[charlie b]

This information is based on some limited work quite a few years ago.

The issue comes about when a bullet does not exit the bore perfectly, ie, there is a little wobble to it. The spin and aerodynamic effects take a bit to counteract this 'wobble'. The heavier the bullet the more force is needed to get it 'stable'. Lots of actions that are countering each other.

IF the bullets exit the bore perfectly then there should be no difference in stability at closer ranges compared to longer ranges. Which is why some people may never notice the problem and others might. Or you may notice it with one bullet and not another since aerodynamic shapes are all a little different.

[yobuck]

Agree. Which is why some will be perfectly satisfied with a 3 rnd group and others will not.

PS When I hunted I would shoot ONE round to verify a rifle before going on a trip. I never had it hit more than a couple inches from aim point if everything was ok with the rifle. It was useful data. I missed the target one year and discovered a loose sight mount. Reset the sight, shot one round, done.

Ive known quite a few guys who were one and done types Charlie.
But mostly because they only had a few left in the box they had for many years and they didn’t want to waste any. Lol

[charlie b]

Ive known quite a few guys who were one and done types Charlie.
But mostly because they only had a few left in the box they had for many years and they didn’t want to waste any. Lol

Yep :)

I think the big thing about using 1, 3 or 5 rounds to zero a rifle came from those "one box" hunters who didn't want to spend money on another box for hunting season. And, yes, I know a few of them too :)

[mikeinco]

bryan litz is an aerospace engineer that likes to shoot.
he has worked for berger, for berger ammo line.
today he is best known for a series of books ,"modern advancements in long range shooting" (2014 and on), and ballistics software called "applied ballistics" (AB) and his company APPLIED BALLISTICS.
see http://appliedballisticsllc.com/


Mike, Can you offer more information. I agree with the "seem" term Hamiltonkiler used. Not as a position but I can see how it "seems" to be true. For those of us who have other responsibilities outside of shooting, could you spend some time educating us rather than telling us we are wrong.

[yobuck]

Apparently he is a pretty good shooter also. But then so is the owner of the Grizzley tool company, whoe’s name for some reason i cant remember. But I’d bet it has little to do with reading Brian’s books.
Years back Brian was fairly active for awhile on one of the websites, but again I don’t remember which one.
But anyway a discussion took place regarding first round hits at extreme distances like 2000 yds.
I asked him a question pertaining to how sure of a first round hit at that distance he would be, and his answer was pretty brief.
” First round hits at that distance can be expected,”
I took that as a don’t you be questioning me, just read my book type answer.
I guess maybe i would have, if i hadn’t been so engrossed in the one i had recently bought.
How to get rich in real estate, with no money and no knowledge, written by E. P. Barnum, famous for the phrase, “there’s one born every minit”.
As for Berger, they had been around for quite awhile before the long range train left the station, which pretty much coincided with Algore creating the internet.
But they were having some issues with at least some of their bullets, which could be why they brought him on board.