Savage bolt .22 rimfires...

[duhast]

Do bolt Savages rimfires have the same reputation for OOB accuracy that the centerfire guns do, i.e. that they are good value 'sleepers'?

[Golfbuddy45]

Where have you been all your life! Savage rimfires are the best shooting .22s on the planet. My MKII BSEV shoots holes in the center of the target with ZERO modifications straight from the plant.

I have out-shot custom $2000 Ruger 10/22 rifles with my factory stock .22LR (and I love Ruger pistols by the way - have 5 of them).

http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/Golfbuddy45/SavageMKIIBSEVRightSide.jpg
Yes - that is a stock from the factory .22LR gun: MKII BSEV - except for the SWIFT 3-9x40 scope.

[duhast]

Been most;y a handgun guy with a 10/22 plinker.....

Have a .308 Mod. 11 and a .223 Edge now. Thinking about a bolt .22 to replace my 514 Remington that was stolen years ago...

What are the Stevens equivalents?

[Golfbuddy45]

You can still find Remington 514 in shops or Online - from $50 rough to $225 if pristine. That was a single shot rifle bolt action. Is that what you want now? The main consideration is how much you want to put into the rifle and do you want wood or synthetic stock? DICKS is selling a Savage MKII GXP Bolt Action with 4x32 scope for $159 right now. They also have a Savage or Remington Semi-auto .22LR with scopes for less than $160. Then you go up from there and the sky is the limit.

[duhast]

I'm building a 10/22 right now, and I started thinking about a bolt gun. Gonna look at the ones you mentioned, though I do like the accutriger... Might go for a G or an F

[TOP PREDATOR]

for a little more $ get a heavy barrel if your going to use it for any serious or semi target shooting, the heavy barrel is much more consistant / accurate than the sporter barrel.

[Golfbuddy45]

I posted a new line on this but I will be picking up my brand new 93 BTVS .22 Magnum tomorrow at the gunshop. All Stainless, Accutrigger, Thumbhole laminated stock. and Heavy Barrel - can't wait to see how accurate that baby is OOB. If it is anything like my MKII BTVS I know I will be extremely happy with it. I will be posting pics and targets as soon as possible.

GB45

[snowgetter1]

I have a standard 93 in 22 mag and really love it. For the price it is awsome. Accu trigger, very good groups , fun to paint. I wish I would have bought the heavy barrel. It shoots good but I also have a Remington 541T and it can not compete stock. I would imagine a heavy barrel would be right with the remington.

[Golfbuddy45]

Here is my new Savage 93 BTVS .22 Magnum on the bottom with my Savage MKII BSEV .22LR. I moved the SWIFT 4-12x40 scope from the BSEV to the BTVS for the longer range capability of the Magnum.
I put a new BSA 3-9x40 .22 scope on the BSEV because the scope is calibrated specifically for .22LR. The scope comes with 3 different elevation caps for 36, 38, and 40 grain bullets making it easier to compensate for changing target distances. I will post some target pictures after I get to the range and zero the two in at 50 yards since I changed both rifles.

http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae70/Golfbuddy45/SAVAGEMKIIBSEV22LR-Savage93BTVS22Magnum.jpg

[Golfbuddy45]

Hey "duhast". Check out my new post:

"ARE SAVAGE RIMFIRES ACCURATE? 1st set of 93 BTVS .22MAG Targets!!!"


http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,36851.0.html

[godale]

saw a 514 on the used gun rack at gander in niles. it was a mess and they still wanted 225.00. :(

[King Ghidora]

My MkIIBTV shoots super groups most of the time but it has a problem with the POI shifting right in the middle of shooting a series. I've seen it jump 3-4 inches between shots and I have no idea why yet. I've tried everything under the sun to fix it. I even sent it back to Savage. They shot it 5 times and sent it back to me saying nothing was wrong with it. I plainly said in my note that it will go 20 rounds before shifting or more. But they didn't read that apparently. The good news is it tested at .7" at 100 yards with 5 shots. Not bad at all but it won't keep doing it. Savage sent me a shipping label to send it back and let them look again. They were very nice about it once I got past the low level techs. I haven't done it yet because I wanted my local gunsmith to check it. He said it was definitely a problem with the rifle itself but the gun still shoots very accurate even with the shift in the POI. I don't know what to think to be honest.

I'm still planning on sending it back to Savage. I just hate to be without it though to be honest. When it's shooting right it's incredible. I recently shot a 2150 on an ARA target with a bone stock rimfire. That's exceptionally good for a rifle that hasn't had any modifications. I've also shot 5 shot, 50 yard groups of .111 and .122. Not many stock rifles will do that. It always shoots tight groups. .25" is not uncommon at all.

I'll get this rifle shooting consistently some day I hope. When I do it should be a rifle to remember the rest of my life. It really is accurate. When you can nail a fly at 50 yards you know you have a shooter. And I've done that many times.

BTW if anyone has any suggestions for fixing my problem I'd sure be grateful. I've already done the obvious stuff like changing mounts, rings, scopes, cleaned the barrel over and over with a dozen different solvents, tried dozens of different kinds of ammo, checked the crown with a microscope, made sure the barrel wasn't touching the stock even when it gets hot, waiting 5 minutes between shots to make sure it isn't heat, and a lot more stuff besides that. But there's a solution out there somewhere - I hope. :)

[handirifle]

My MkIIBTV shoots super groups most of the time but it has a problem with the POI shifting right in the middle of shooting a series. I've seen it jump 3-4 inches between shots and I have no idea why yet. I've tried everything under the sun to fix it. I even sent it back to Savage. They shot it 5 times and sent it back to me saying nothing was wrong with it. I plainly said in my note that it will go 20 rounds before shifting or more. But they didn't read that apparently. The good news is it tested at .7" at 100 yards with 5 shots. Not bad at all but it won't keep doing it. Savage sent me a shipping label to send it back and let them look again. They were very nice about it once I got past the low level techs. I haven't done it yet because I wanted my local gunsmith to check it. He said it was definitely a problem with the rifle itself but the gun still shoots very accurate even with the shift in the POI. I don't know what to think to be honest.

I'm still planning on sending it back to Savage. I just hate to be without it though to be honest. When it's shooting right it's incredible. I recently shot a 2150 on an ARA target with a bone stock rimfire. That's exceptionally good for a rifle that hasn't had any modifications. I've also shot 5 shot, 50 yard groups of .111 and .122. Not many stock rifles will do that. It always shoots tight groups. .25" is not uncommon at all.

I'll get this rifle shooting consistently some day I hope. When I do it should be a rifle to remember the rest of my life. It really is accurate. When you can nail a fly at 50 yards you know you have a shooter. And I've done that many times.

BTW if anyone has any suggestions for fixing my problem I'd sure be grateful. I've already done the obvious stuff like changing mounts, rings, scopes, cleaned the barrel over and over with a dozen different solvents, tried dozens of different kinds of ammo, checked the crown with a microscope, made sure the barrel wasn't touching the stock even when it gets hot, waiting 5 minutes between shots to make sure it isn't heat, and a lot more stuff besides that. But there's a solution out there somewhere - I hope. :)


Question? Is it consistant at 20 rounds or close to that number, every 20 rounds? After the flier, does it settle back into the tight groups or stay wild?
Sounds like you've tried most everything. I am wondering if it could be something causing an odd firing pin strike? Another possibility is something getting on the rim as the round is chambering, like maybe the bolt head has grit from unburned powder, causing the round to chamber slightly cockeyed? Just throwing out ideas here, mind you. Maybe something flacking off the magazine onto the rim, or dirt getting into the mag?

check the rear of the bolt for excessive play when hot.

Hope something shows up so ya can fix it. can be darn frustrating like that when the rifle shows Sooooo much promise.

[King Ghidora]

Actually once the POI jumps the rifle will shoot to the new spot until it jumps again usually. Sometimes it will jump about 3 or 4 times before settling in on a new POI consistently.

The one thing I'm thinking lately is that because rounds don't feed smoothly into the chamber that a lead bullet (it loves Wolf MT more than anything so I use it often) will peel off a very small amount of the lead nose and put it between the rim of the cartridge and the rim of the chamber or possibly just inside the chamber where it pushed the cartridge over. I noticed one day that a bullet didn't feed well (because it doesn't have a proper feed ramp) and after that the POI jumped quite a bit. The piece of lead could remain on the lip of the chamber causing the next few rounds to be equally off and actually hit very close together. Once the lead is knocked off or drops off or whatever the POI will jump again and once again fire in a tight pattern at a different POI.

I'm not the only person who has come to this conclusion. There are people selling single shot adapters to prevent the problems with the rounds feeding at an angle and essentially shaving off some lead that either ends up on the lip of the chamber or possibly just inside the chamber causing each cartridge to be pushed away from perfect alignment.

This is just a theory at this point and I haven't even seen whether the one shot adapter has helped people with this same problem. And it does seem to be a common problem with this rifle. Apparently nearly all of these rifles like Wolf ammo and they all sometimes feed the rounds at an odd angle or whatever.

The real question is what to do about this problem if it is the problem. Totally cleaning the bore and chamber after every shot in a competition isn't really feasible especially since nearly all of these rifles shoot better with a fouled barrel and it usually takes about 20 rounds to get it fouled enough to make the rifle shoot it's best.

If anyone has a fix for this problem I'd love to hear it. If anyone has heard of any other rifles acting this way I'd love to hear about that too. In fact any help at all would be appreciated.

[handirifle]

I know the AR crowd has a similar issue on some barrels, and their answer is to have the barrel slightly chamfered, not so much as to detract from accuracy, but enough to allow smooth feeding. Usually this is done by hand so as not to over do it. Not sure where you'd find the ptoper reamer for it. A good smith might know.

If the feeding issue isn't your problem, I'd look very carefully at the barrel to reciever fit. Is there ANY possiblilty of a slight barrel shift once thit starts to warm up? Wouldn't take much.

Just more ideas to ponder.

[King Ghidora]

My BTV actually started out as an FV. I swapped the stocks (got the same stock Savages uses for the BTV) and I still had the same problem. So I don't think it would be a problem with the way the metal meets the stock. I have noticed an ever so slight amount of touching between the barrel and the stock when it gets pretty hot (after about 40 rounds or so) but since it did the same thing with the synthetic stock (POI shifted) I have a hard time thinking it's anything to do with this. The F stock never touched the barrel at any time.

I'm going to sand down the stock just to make sure but it's only barely making contact. A couple of swipes with some sandpaper and the problem is gone. I know it's worth the effort to try but I just don't have much faith that's the problem.

[Rifleman51]

You may be able to take a round stone and just take a very small amout off the top edge of the chamber, just barely break the sharp edge.
Remember, the chamber has to support the cartridge.

A better answer would be to adjust the feed lips of the mag so that the bullet goes in at a slightly lower angle.

I only have the problem and not every time on the very last round being fed from my 10 round mags.
If I go easy, it does not shave lead.

As far as accuracy goes, the Savages are great right out of the box.

Mine shot in the low .4" range with Wolf ammo, 5 shots @ 50.

I took it to Savagegunsmithing for an accuracy job and when it was returned, it shot a best of .117", 5 shots @ 50 Yds.
It will shoot in the .1" range on a good day with little wind. If it's a little breezy, it shoots in the .2" range, or sometime .3" if it's more than just breezy. The trigger is now a totally safe 8 OZ and breaks clean as glass. It still looks like a stock sear and the other parts still look stock, though the springs have been tweeked some, so there are none of the shims or some other sear mods I've seen posted that make me very nervious just to look at.

It really makes the Annie and CZ shooters made to see my targets, to think that a lowley Savage can shoot with or outshoot their expensive rifles. Mine is a .22LR BRJ.

By the way, it's nice to be back on the site, I was the Gunsmithing Moderator here on this site about 5 years ago. I intend to send my money in and be a paying member asap. I hurt my back and sold my gunsmithing business at that time.
I kind of slowed way down on my shooting for some time, but have got back into it big time. I'm not going to get another license and open another shop, it's just too expensive, but it's just darn nice to get back on this site. Always had a bunch of great people here.

Best Regareds, John K

[Rifleman51]

You didn't mention the scope and mounts. A scope with a loose retical will cause the problems you are having. Try switching out scopes and make sure your mounts are rock solid. Make sure the barrel is 100% free floated with enough room all the way to the action. If you are not placing the forend in the shooting rest at exactly the same place every time, it could be that the amount of space betwen the barrel and stock is really close in one spot and if you rest it on that spot, it starts to push the wood against the barrel.

If for some reason the FP is hanging up just enough that it is not dropping with the same force every time, the change if force that the FP hits the cartridge can cause a POI change.

Try another scope first, then bed the action in the stock. Take the bolt apart and check for any burrs. There has got to be an answer.
Try a different lot of ammo also. If you are just shooting out of one brick that you bought, it's possible there are defectve rounds in that one brick of ammo.
If you do find the problem, be sure to post what you found. All is good for future knowledge for all who read the post.

Good Luck, John K

[King Ghidora]

Actually I did talk about the scopes, rings, solvents, mounts, etc. that I've used in #11 John. I appreciate the help on this and I know there are about 1000 different things that it could be but I think I've nearly eliminated everything except the problem with rounds not feeding correctly. But I've had 3 different scopes, two different stocks, 4 or 5 sets of rings, 3 different mounts, I've tried dozens of different brands of ammo, I've tried to work with the action screw torque settings, I've worked on my stocks to make sure the receiver connected to it right, I've tried different mags, I essentially pillar bedded my front action screw, and I'm sure a lot of other things I'm not remembering right now. Unfortunately I've had another issue with another rifle that has tied my up for a few days. I hope to try loading all my rounds by hand sometime soon. But to be honest I've had to concentrate my finances on my daughter's wedding recently and now with Christmas coming up I've gotten really low on the Wolf ammo this rifle likes. Hopefully soon I'll be shooting this rifle again and enough to make a difference. But usually I end up stocking up on ammo during the winter because there are just less daylight hours to get to practice. It's always something it seems but sooner or later I think I'll figure out what's going on. But I've already been struggling with new ideas on what to try.

[shaman]

Rifleman51, what work did they do on your gun? That sounds interesting