Revisiting the 300 Blackout on a Savage platform?

[mattri]

The BO has been out long enough thought it would be interesting to revisit building one off a Savage action.

For those that have done/considered this:

What went well?

What didn't go so well?

Barrel length/twists that worked better than others for super and/or subsonic?

Feeding/extraction issues?

Things you wish you knew?

Have a SA kicking around, considering a BO build obviously. Project would be for experimenting with super and subsonic loads on paper @ mostly 100 yards, prob push to 200 now and then for kicks. Started by looking at the 38 Thumper but not sure I want to tackle that big of a project just yet. Kicked around the 450 BM, a Hornet, the Raptor, 358 win, a plain 223 etc but may just go with a BO for simplicity's sake.

Interested to hear what folks have to say about this round in a Savage- thanks!

[Dave Hoback]

Well, in the world of accuracy vs subsonic, (for spittin’ through a can RRRREEEELLLY quiet!), the 300AAC seems to be at the front of the pack. You can load higher BC pills, like the 220gr MK’s in the <1100fps range and still have match grade accuracy. WITH 45acp+P power to boot! I don’t think any of the other ultra short action, SUBSONIC offerings can match it. I’m not a fan, for other reasons, but truth is truth regardless. And it does indeed seem to stand alone with your criteria in mind Mattri.

[dolomite_supafly]

The BO has been out long enough thought it would be interesting to revisit building one off a Savage action.

For those that have done/considered this:

What went well? If you reload you can use fast pistol powder to create very quiet loads. VV N105, Blue Dot and Trail Boss all work well. I have used Trail Boss compressed with heavy bullets and have yet to have an issue.

What didn't go so well? Nothing I can think of. I have been involved with and building 300 Blackout guns for at least 8 years now.

Barrel length/twists that worked better than others for super and/or subsonic? I have used barrels from 32" down to 3.5" for the 300 Blackout. I would stay in the 8"-16" range. Shorter and it tends to get louder, even with a silencer, and longer is just not needed. As far as twist rates anything 8 twist or faster will work with 99% of the bullets on the market. ACME bullet company sells a 265 grain bullet that is stable in 8 twist barrels because it is cast and coated bullet which tends to be more stable than longer jacketed bullets.

Feeding/extraction issues? If you file the bottom of the slot in the ejector it will help with ejection. You want the ejector to be flush with the front of the bolt head.

Things you wish you knew? I should have jumped on the bandwagon sooner. It is the most versatile caliber ever. You can shoot 55g 00 buck balls all the way to 265g bullets. Supersonic and subsonic out of the same magazine in an AR15. Brass is easy to make from 5.56 and it uses the most common bullet diameter, .308".

Have a SA kicking around, considering a BO build obviously. Project would be for experimenting with super and subsonic loads on paper @ mostly 100 yards, prob push to 200 now and then for kicks. Started by looking at the 38 Thumper but not sure I want to tackle that big of a project just yet. Kicked around the 450 BM, a Hornet, the Raptor, 358 win, a plain 223 etc but may just go with a BO for simplicity's sake.

Interested to hear what folks have to say about this round in a Savage- thanks!

Here is the 32" gun chambered in 300 Blackout.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67842330_2612074615470568_4008796004479401984_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQlggjaE3fIkrI4CPZ-rPHi5F7_5eGIIfMfSblrZ6TcbyPGbkp_6ld0O8eMNowg16Pj-7li8tXRs1eZfbHZJQGQ_&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=aacac44a7bf19117fc19ad58f95c6578&oe=5DD09DFF
It is a Krieger barrel and I did it to explore max velocity with the 300 Blackout. I have a friend who has pushed a lightweight bullet past 3,000 FPS with his 300 Blackout bolt gun.

And here is a picture of my 300 Blackout bolt gun with a 3.5" barrel. It has my silencer on it. It uses a Nucleus action so it can be used as a pistol.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68397977_2610107679000595_4415877686308634624_o.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQmPNyqkOOQ0b9oztoIFO-zTLD3Uof_E1Ufl2WGiLEeBywRR2MG_NzwAzcW0M4ue7iWrS3ot Y8dPYyVojzno_HxS&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=4de2abe74a266171c27656ed91462ae4&oe=5DD48B84

And finally, I am currently building a Remington Model 7 as a pistol. The bare receiver was sold by Brownells so it is also legal to build into a pistol. It will feed from an AR magazine. It will be like a rear trigger XP100.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/tngunowners/arn%3Aaws%3As3%3A%3A%3Atngunowners/%2A/monthly_2017_11/5a1050be8341c_modelpistol.jpg.840f8f66621dd9241aa5 f02c92c7b8b0.jpg

[Robinhood]

For those that have done/considered this:

What went well?

There is nothing that gives trouble with this combo.

What didn't go so well?

Smooth sailing

Barrel length/twists that worked better than others for super and/or subsonic?

18"/8 twist/subsonic

Feeding/extraction issues?

None

Things you wish you knew?

How much fun you could have. Expansion is not easy out of conventional hunting or target projectiles.

[mattri]

Great information thanks for the posts.

Will definitely be handloading, seems liks this would be a good round for cast bullets- anyone try something like cast off wheel weights with a big meplat and/or hollow point? At sub speeds shouldn't lead too bad and may help with expansion.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

VERY interesting posts. AR? Can? :cool: Well at least NOT in California.:sour: Still good to see other folks can have fun, even it we can't.;)

[Dave Hoback]

Yes, unfortunately in the “Communistfornia” you don’t get to have any fun with firearms...and you better not disagree or you are a racist! (I still don’t understand how they come to that). LOL.

Mattri, I am interested what you objective is for this? Is it simply for 100yd target shooting with a can? For the heck of it? I’m wondering because the notion is so grossly underpowered for any hunting, or target shooting beyond 100yds or so.

[mattri]

Thanks! Looking at bolt actions for now. Figure I'd focus on subsonic loads to see what kind of accuracy/performance is doable. That way if a can comes into play no need to reinvent the wheel and even if the can doesn't happen it's still a lot quieter and just an intereating experiment anyway. The 300 BO has the most support so far, if everything goes well it might be fun to move on and work with other rounds down the line.

Yes- the point of this is an experiment, something different. I've built rifles for bench work, varminting, hunting in the Rockies etc, this is just an exercise in shooting/loading subsonic. It will be for punching paper, how far out is part if the experiment.

I don't really hunt much anymore, and bottlenecks aren't allowed here anyway so no use for the 300 BO there. If tbis project turns out to be interesting and I move on to another round, 358, 450 BM etc down the line it could in theory see some sort of hunting application but that's too far down the road to even guess at for now.

I'm fortunate enough to have the opportunity to build a "fun" gun to experiment with, that's what this is about��

[Dave Hoback]

Ahhh, gotcha. I figured this was the situation. Unfortunately the laws of physics make it so that power-caliber size-velocity-noise level are all connected. You can have Power with large caliber & low velocity/low noise. Or you can have Power with smaller caliber & high velocity/higher noise. But you CAN’T have Power with smaller caliber & low velocity/low noise! Darn “law of physics” always gettin’ in the way of things!

[mattri]

Nothing's free for sure, kind of like when we were building motors, they used to say:

Cheap
Fast
Reliable

You can have two.

In the interest of full disclosure I should mention that I also want to start experimenting with lead bullets, bullets with different meplats/shapes and casting with different types/hardness- a test mule slated mostly for subsonic loads seemed a good place to start with that as well.

[Robinhood]

Dolomite, is that bottom pic your 6.5 Creedless?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/tngunowners/arn%3Aaws%3As3%3A%3A%3Atngunowners/%2A/monthly_2017_11/5a1050be8341c_modelpistol.jpg.840f8f66621dd9241aa5 f02c92c7b8b0.jpg

[Dave Hoback]

I’m guessing it is. The first time I saw the 300aac, 6.5mm is EXACTLY what I thought of! Then I came across Dolomite’s “Creedless” on one forum or another. Brilliant! Precisely what I would do if I had interest in this style.

[dolomite_supafly]

It is, I am going to have a hex machined into the end of the barrels so I can switch calibers easily. Going to be 223 Remington, 300 Blackout and instead of the Creedless I am using a 221 Fireball necked up to 6mm.

[dolomite_supafly]

I have been involved in the 300 Blackout for a VERY, VERY long time. Right after my helicopter accident I dabbled in bullet design as well as making bolt lift kits as a means to occupy my time and forget about life for a while. During that time I designed three different bullets for the Blackout. First was a 245 grain bullet that is super popular. Second was a 129 grain pointed bullet everyone dubbed the "Crayola of Death" because it looked like a Crayola Crayon. And initially it did not seem to work with harder alloys and slower twists it seems to do fine. And my final is the heaviest cast bullet available for the 300 Blackout. It is 265 grains and is stable in 8 twist or faster at subsonic velocities and stable in a 10 twist at above 1,100 fps. I licensed it to ACME bullet company and they produce and sell them. If the OP, or anyone else, gives them a try I will gladly provide load data for the bullet. It, unlike other subsonic bullets, hits HARD. I get feedback regularly from hunters and it smashes through shoulders and skulls even at subsonic velocities. It will feed from a magazine and cycle in an AR.

http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/Black%20Out/Black-Out

The "DS" in DS Special is my screen name.

[tobnpr]

And here is a picture of my 300 Blackout bolt gun with a 3.5" barrel. It has my silencer on it. It uses a Nucleus action so it can be used as a pistol.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68397977_2610107679000595_4415877686308634624_o.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQmPNyqkOOQ0b9oztoIFO-zTLD3Uof_E1Ufl2WGiLEeBywRR2MG_NzwAzcW0M4ue7iWrS3ot Y8dPYyVojzno_HxS&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=4de2abe74a266171c27656ed91462ae4&oe=5DD48B84


Explain?

That's a SBR...and will always be a SBR.

[Dave Hoback]

And here is a picture of my 300 Blackout bolt gun with a 3.5" barrel. It has my silencer on it. It uses a Nucleus action so it can be used as a pistol.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/68397977_2610107679000595_4415877686308634624_o.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQmPNyqkOOQ0b9oztoIFO-zTLD3Uof_E1Ufl2WGiLEeBywRR2MG_NzwAzcW0M4ue7iWrS3ot Y8dPYyVojzno_HxS&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=4de2abe74a266171c27656ed91462ae4&oe=5DD48B84


Explain?

That's a SBR...and will always be a SBR.

No, it’s not an SBR. That is a pistol brace it’s wearing. Little “workaround”(loophole) folks came up with years ago in the AR crowd.

[tobnpr]

^^
I see that now..., looks like it's missing the strap

[dolomite_supafly]

^^
I see that now..., looks like it's missing the strap

That is a Shockwave brace. They do not have a strap and are approved braces.

Also, that action is sold as a bare receiver so it can legally be built as a pistol. I built it as a pistol first so I can go back and forth between pistol and rifle all I want.

[Dave Hoback]

Also, that action is sold as a bare receiver so it can legally be built as a pistol. I built it as a pistol first so I can go back and forth between pistol and rifle all I want.

Bingo! The AR community has solved the SBR puzzle for everyone else! LOL! I wish all this had been around when I went through MY SBR infatuation. (EVERY AR enthusiast has this at some point or another). For most who have built them as long as I have, the SBR phase wears off. But there are a few who remain faithful.

Going back to the 300aac, it certainly fills a niche. But I certainly wouldn’t credit it with a host of talents. If accuracy is your game..there are better! If hunting is your bag...there are better! If distance is your ticket...there are MUCH better! Don’t get me wrong, it’s versatile. But one could argue the 6.5 Grendel being the same thing! (Was never a fan of that one either)

[dolomite_supafly]

Bingo! The AR community has solved the SBR puzzle for everyone else! LOL! I wish all this had been around when I went through MY SBR infatuation. (EVERY AR enthusiast has this at some point or another). For most who have built them as long as I have, the SBR phase wears off. But there are a few who remain faithful.

Going back to the 300aac, it certainly fills a niche. But I certainly wouldn’t credit it with a host of talents. If accuracy is your game..there are better! If hunting is your bag...there are better! If distance is your ticket...there are MUCH better! Don’t get me wrong, it’s versatile. But one could argue the 6.5 Grendel being the same thing! (Was never a fan of that one either)

It may not be great at too many things but name another caliber capable of what the 300 blackout is. Quiet subsonic rounds and 500+ yard capable rounds out of the same gun and magazine without any adjustment. If I hunted I could take 00 buck and a super lightweight load of powder to take squirrels or use full power loads to kill most anything in North America. Granted it isn't going to kill an elk at 500 yards but people have killed elk with it. What makes it great isn't that it can do any one of those things you mention but it can do all of them. It is hard to find a compromise that is as useful as the 300 Blackout. Name a semi auto that can shoot 75 grain to 280 grain bullets and cycle with every single one. Not to mention the selection of bullet weights.

But single shots is where it really shines. I use very fast pistol powders and with my silencer it is magical. I call it my slingshot load because it is quieter than a slingshot. When at the range I wait for a lull then I launch one and ring steel. All the other shooters start looking around trying to figure out why the steel target range without a shot being fired. Most people I let shoot think there was a misfire because all you hear most times is the hammer fall on my Encore.