Documented results from replacing the 12 FV factory stock with an Oryx Chassis

[CFJunkie]

Here are the results of another session with the 12 FV .223 that took place in Northern Virginia on Monday morning, September 9th at 100 yards. Temperatures on Monday were from 73 to 82 degrees with winds from 4 to 7 mph. Altitude of the range is 250 feet above sea level. For this session, the 12 FV was mounted in the Oryx chassis using the 36X single power Sightron 1-inch tube scope with a target dot reticle. The action screws were torqued to 60 in.-lbs. prior to this session to meet the Oryx chassis torque specs.

All the loads were shot using Lapua brass with Remington 7 ½ small rifle primers. All bullets were loaded to achieve a 1.361 msec. exit time (12th reflection) to stay well under Pmax using the 77 grain bullets with IMR4166 powder. Loading for the 10th reflection at 1.134 msec. would have been well above Pmax pressures and wasn’t attempted. The 1.361 exit time should be the sweet spot for the 12th reflection for a 26-inch 3% carbon steel barrel with a 0.040-inch recessed crown.

Sorry for the primitive format for the following entries but the new server doesn’t seem to allow the formatting that I was able to do with the previous server.
All loads were shot with IMR4166 powder, Sierra 77 gr TMK #7177 bullets with an Oryx chassis torqued to 60 in.-lbs. and at 1.361 msec. exit time.

# Grps. – O.A.L. – Trim --- Vel. ---- Avg. -- Median - St. Dev. ----- 1 ------ 2 ------- 3 ------- 4
--- 4---- 2.358 --- 1.746 – 2543 --- 0.285 -- 0.286 --- 0.042 --- 0.245 – 0.252 – 0.320 -- 0.322
--- 4 --- 2.355 --- 1.743 – 2543 --- 0.286 – 0.292 --- 0.022 --- 0.257 – 0.282 – 0.302 – 0.303
--- 4 --- 2.355 --- 1.741 – 2543 --- 0.244 – 0.238 --- 0.067 --- 0.181 – 0.195 – 0.281 – 0.320
--- 4 --- 2.350 --- 1.738 – 2543 --- 0.287 -- 0.281 --- 0.074 --- 0.206 – 0.263 – 0.298 – 0.382
-- 16 ------------------------------------ 0.276 – 0.282 --- 0.053

Today’s results reduced the overall average 5 round group size of all loads shot so far to 0.303 for 270 groups.
Previous results with Sierra 77 gr TMK #7177 bullets with IMR4166 powder and Rem 7 ½ primers averaged 0.278 for 134 groups.
Today’s results with the same bullet, powder and primer averaged 0.276 for 16 groups which is just about on the overall average.

Today’s one good load average of 0.244 was the 7th best load of all the 12 V .223 loads, proving that even a blind pig can find an acorn once in a while.

After today’s session, the 77 gr TMKs current overall average remains at 0.278 for 150 groups.

The 77 gr TMK #7177 bullets continue to amaze with their accuracy out of the 1:9 twist barrel on the 12 FV when they are supposed to be marginally stable. Between the 77 gr TMKs and their cousins the 77gr SMKs, they hold the first two ranks of all the bullets shot in the 12 FV .223.
When all the groups shot including the lighter bullets are included, the overall factory stock 88 groups average 0.356.

The Oryx chassis 180 groups average 0.278, but the Oryx stock was used to exclusively shoot the heavier 69 and 77 grain bullets which have shot much more accurately than most of the lighter bullets so that has skewed the comparison of the stock and chassis.

That computes to an improvement of 21.9% for the Oryx stock, but I think that is not truly representative of the difference in the performance of two stocks. I tend to shoot the bullets that shoot the most accurately, so I have been concentrating on the 69 and 77 grain bullets over the most recent sessions and the better bullets, mostly shot on the Oryx stock have biased the results. For that reason, I did a comparison of the factory stock and Oryx chassis should be based on similar bullets and similar primers.

------------- Factory Stock ------------------- Oryx Chassis -------------
Bullet --------- Avg. ---# Grps. ------ Avg. --- # Grps. % Improvement
69 SMK ------- 0.329 ----- 10 --------- 0.300 --- 15 ------- 8.7 %
69 TMK ------- 0.290 ----- 21 --------- 0.258 --- 07 ------- 11.1 %
77 SMK ------- 0.344 ----- 11 --------- 0.268 --- 19 ------- 22.1 %
77 TMK ------- 0.272 ----- 20 --------- 0.279 --- 130 ----- (-2.4%)
All 69 & 77s - 0.286 ----- 62 --------- 0.279 --- 180 ------ 2.3%

Even this comparison is slightly biased by using different jumps on some of the early data but the sample sizes are so small that further splitting out the data introduces the influence of ‘shooter induced variations’ that invalidates any conclusions. Interestingly, the average of the 77 gr TMK #7177 bullets with the Oryx stock is the only bullet that has better numbers with the factory stock.

It turns out that the 77 gr TMK groups shot with the factory stock were all shot with CCI BR- 4 primers while the 77 gr TMKs shot with the Oryx chassis had 121 groups shot with Remington 7 ½ BR primers (0.280 average) and only 21 groups shot with CCI BR-4 primers (271 average). When the primer to primer results are compared, the results are just about dead even for the 77 gr TMKs.
Because there are so many more groups (130) shot with the 77 gr TMKs compared to all the others, the combined 69 and 77 grain SMKs and 69 gr TMKs results between the factory stock and the Oryx chassis are just about even.
The factory stock 62 total groups average 0.286 and the 180 Oryx chassis groups average 0.279 resulting in only a 2.3% overall improvement.

[charlie b]

Thanks again for this kind of work. The attention to detail is great for scientific analysis.

And, yes, even this blind pig gets a great group every now and then too :)

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk

[CFJunkie]

Here are more results with the Savage 12 FV .223 with the Oryx chassis using the 36X single power Sightron 1-inch tube scope with a target dot reticle. The action screws were torqued to 60 in.-lbs. prior to this session to match the Oryx chassis torque specs.

This session, held in Northern Virginia at 100 yards on Wednesday, Sept 25th at temperatures from 57 to 53 degrees from 8 AM to 11:00 AM with winds from 1 to 3 mph. Altitude of the range is 250 feet above sea level.

For this session, I was experimenting with the relative accuracy for two Sierra 69 grain match bullets at two different velocities – each were chosen to match the exit time for a different reflection time for the shock wave that proceeds down the barrel at 19,107 fps for this particular barrel length and steel type.
Each bullet type was loaded to achieve both a 1.134 msec. exit time (10th reflection) relatively close to Pmax and a 1.361 msec. exit time (12th reflection) to stay well under Pmax.
Both the exit times at the two different reflections should be on a sweet spot for a 26-inch 3% carbon steel barrel with a 0.040-inch recessed crown.

I loaded IMR4166 Enduron powder and 69 grain Sierra SMK #1380 and Sierra 69 gr Tipped Match King #7169 bullets with the seating depths for the 77 grain bullets to achieve the a jump to the rifling – 0.030 to 0.020 – and then adjusted the seating depth by less than 0.005 thousandths to achieve the desired exit times to accommodate variations in the brass trim length. All the loads were shot using Lapua brass using CCI BR-4 small rifle primers.

As a result, all the loads are quite similar with only slight variations in seating depth and trim length.

The load description field shows the powder and charge, the O.A.L., the trim length, and the bullet exit time from the 26-inch barrel.


# Grps
Load Description
Bullet
Weight
Velocity
Average
Median
St Dev
1
2
3
4


4
IMR4166 21.7 gr 2.345 1.752 wf 1.361 * 59/59 deg. F. CCI BR-4 Oryx 60 in.-lbs.
Sierra SMK #1380
69
2594
0.253
0.259
0.036
0.211
0.243
0.257
0.302


4
IMR4166 21.3 gr 2.353 1.752 wf 1.361 * 64/64 deg. F. CCI BR-4 Oryx 60 in-lbs.
Sierra TMK #7169
69
2586
0.285
0.277
0.027
0.263
0.266
0.287
0.322


4
IMR4166 24.9 gr 2.347 1.751 wf 1.134 * 70/69 deg. F. CCI BR-4 Oryx 60 in.-lbs.
Sierra SMK #1380
69
2970
0.264
0.260
0.048
0.218
0.227
0.293
0.316


4
IMR4166 21.0 gr 2.350 1.750 wf 1.134 * 73/73 deg, F. CCI BR-4 Oryx 60 in.-lbs.
Sierra TMK #7169
69
2954
0.317
0.323
0.053
0.258
0.286
0.360
0.364


16




0.280
0.276
0.046






.



The SMKs averaged 0.258 and the TMKs averaged 0.301.
However, the 10th reflection exit times averaged 0.290 and the 12th reflection exit times averaged 0.269.

But those averages were both skewed by the last TMK 10th reflection load that averaged 0.317 (no explanation other than shooter induced variation).

In fact, the best load was a 12th reflection SMK load at 0.253 and the 2nd best was a 10th reflection SMK load at 0.264.
The 12th reflection TMK load average 0.264.

I think I have better retest this in opposite order to see if the early loads get the benefit of better concentration from a 76-year-old shooter.

[CFJunkie]

This session, held in Northern Virginia at 100 yards on Saturday, Sept 28th at temperatures from 69 to 73 degrees from 8 AM to 10:30 AM with winds from 3 to 6 mph. This experiment was performed using the Savage 12 FV .223 with the replacement Oryx chassis using the 36X42 single power Sightron 1-inch tube scope with a target dot reticle. The action screws were torqued to 60 in.-lbs. prior to this session to match the Oryx chassis torque specs.

Altitude of the range is 250 feet above sea level. The morning was overcast as can be seen by the relatively consistent temperatures during the morning – the cloud cover kept the temperatures from dropping too severely overnight and reduced the heating by the sun after sun-up. But the light winds were blowing from directly behind the firing line from 9 AM onward and did cause some swirling within the berms protecting the range so it was very difficult to read the wind.

After experiencing some fairly severe accuracy drop off when shooting the last load during recent sessions, I decided to extend the test I performed during the last session using two Sierra 69 grain match bullets at two different velocities – each were chosen to match the exit time for a different reflection time for the shock wave that proceeds down the barrel at 19,107 fps for this particular barrel length and steel type. For this session, I reversed the testing sequence of the loads, shooting the faster loads first. I was trying to see if I could eliminate the poor results I was experiencing with the last load at the last two sessions.

Each bullet type was loaded to achieve both a 1.134 msec. exit time (10th reflection) relatively close to Pmax and a 1.361 msec. exit time (12th reflection) to stay well under Pmax. Both the exit times at the two different reflections should be on a sweet spot for a 26-inch 3% carbon steel barrel with a 0.040-inch recessed crown.

I loaded IMR4166 Enduron powder and 69 grain Sierra SMK #1380 and Sierra 69 gr Tipped Match King #7169 bullets with the seating depths for the 77 grain bullets to achieve the a jump to the rifling – around 0.020 – and then adjusted the seating depth by less than 0.005 thousandths to achieve the desired exit times to accommodate variations in the brass trim length. All the loads were shot using Lapua brass using CCI BR-4 small rifle primers.
As can be seen in the following table, all the loads are quite similar with only slight variations in seating depth and trim length.

The load description field shows the powder and charge, the O.A.L., the trim length, and the bullet exit time from the 26-inch barrel.


# Grps.

Load Description

Bullet

Weight

Velocity

Average

Median

St Dev

1

2

3

4



4

IMR4166 24.4 gr 2.355 1.754 wf 1.134 * 69/69 deg. F. Oryx 60 in.-lbs.

Sierra TMK #7169

69

2953

0.308

0.308

0.024

0.279

0.302

0.314

0.336



the4

IMR4166 24.9 gr 2.349 1.753 wf 1.134 * 71/71 deg. F. Oryx 60 in-lbs.

Sierra SMK #1380

69

2970

0.259

0.265

0.012

0.241

0.264

0.265

0.266



4

IMR4166 21.3 gr 2.353 1.752 wf 1.361 * 74/72 deg. F. Oryx 60 in.-lbs.

Sierra TMK #7169

69

2581

0.315

0.323

0.076

0.216

0.316

0.329

0.400



4

IMR4166 21.7 gr 2.346 1.751 wf 1.361 * 79/73 deg, F. Oryx 60 in.-lbs.

Sierra SMK #1380

69

2593

0.305

0.276

0.080

0.245

0.269

0.283

0.422



16









0.297

0.281

0.056









































The resulting average group sizes were not quite as good as at the last session but the fall off in accuracy with the last load didn’t occur.
At this session, I shot only the one remaining load from the 6.5mm Creedmoor rifle so I had more time to attend to this experiment and didn’t have to rush to finish before a ceasefire was going to be called. At the previous session I was swapping rifles to allow one to cool while I shot the other. It may have created loss of concentration toward the end of the session. The lower work load probably had something to do with the more consistent results, even if the overall average for the session was higher than for the last session.
Even then, only one load produced a sub 0.3 group average at today’s session. I guess that shows that a shooter (at least this shooter) doesn’t perform consistently from session to session, although the results are still pretty impressive, especially for a low-cost mass-produced rifle (even if it has a replacement stock). The natural variations in shooting performance from session to session is another reason to gather relatively large samples when making comparisons and attempting to form any conclusions.

Combining the results for the last two sessions, the averages for the bullet – reflection sorted by reflection for the last two sessions are:
Sierra 69 grain SMK # 1380 – 1.134 msec. exit time – 10th reflection (24.9 gr IMR4166 – 2970 fps) for 8 groups = 0.261
Sierra 69 grain SMK #1380 – 1.361 msec. exit time – 12th reflection (21.7 gr IMR4166 – 2593 & 2594 fps) for 8 groups = 0.279
Sierra 69 grain TMK #7169 – 1.134 msec. exit time – 10th reflection (24.4 gr IMR4166 – 2984 fps) for 8 groups = 0.312
Sierra 69 grain TMK #7169 – 1.361 msec. exit time – 12th reflection (21.3 gr IMR4166 – 2581 & 2584 fps) for 8 groups = 0.300
For the 69 grain bullets, the SMKs seem to be performing better.

Comparing By Bullet for the last two sessions:
69 grain SMK # 1380 bullets for 16 groups = 0.270
69 grain TMK # 7169 bullets for 16 groups = 0.306

Comparing By Reflection for the last two sessions:
10th reflection (both bullets) for 16 groups = 0.287
12th reflection (both bullets) for 16 groups = 0.289
There doesn’t appear to be any appreciable difference based upon reflection.

Overall results to date for the two 69 grain bullet types with IMR 4166 powder regardless of seating depth, trim length or velocity are as follows:
Sierra 69 grain SMK # 1380 = 0.289 for 49 groups
Sierra 69 grain TMK # 7169 bullets = 0.295 for 53 groups
Again, the SMKs show a slight edge in accuracy across a pretty large sample set.

However, the 77 grain Sierra bullets are performing almost the opposite with respect to accuracy.
Sierra 77 grain SMK #9377 = 0.296 for 31 groups.
Sierra 77 grain TMK #7177 = 0.278 for 150 groups.

[CFJunkie]

I haven't been keeping up this thread because I thought that there was enough .223 data here to provide results that most reloaders could use to test loads with their rifles and I had justified the switch to the Oryx chassis as far as I was concerned.

As some of you already know, I sort of dropped off this forum when my wife died and it took me a while to get back into shooting again. The first rifle I tried was this 12 FV .223 with the Oryx stock. Thank you all for your condolences and good wishes. It means a lot to me.


The first day at the range was a real wake-up call.
6970
But I knew that I had to get out and do things that would occupy my mind.
From that session, I realized what being away from shooting for over a month did to my accuracy.

I went back to the range in January and then again in February and I started to get back to my normal set up and had a good day in February.
6971

After commenting a few times on other threads, I figured that some of you might get some benefit from seeing what not shooting regularly might be doing to your own accuracy.
I realize that not every one has the luxury of shooting as much as I was shooting but apparently it really helps consistency.

I tried a bit different format with this most recent data because it is easier to get the columns in line.
Hopefully, you all find this data easier to read.

[charlie b]

Yes, not shooting on a regular basis screws me up as well. Also, shooting different rifles in the same session can put me off a bit. Especially going from the varmint trigger to std accutrigger. When I take two rifles to the range I try to shoot the one with the worst trigger first. :)

[Chris3.Drums]

I like the new data-in-pic format. Makes reading on my phone easier, for sure.

[CFJunkie]

Thanks for the feedback.
I hadn't thought of how difficult it would be to read lots of text on a small screen.
I'll adjust to using the new format from now on.

[CFJunkie]

This will be the last entry for a while. They just closed our rifle/pistol range, the skeet and trap ranges, our indoor and outdoor archery ranges, and the indoor air pistol/air rifle range because of the corona virus.
Even though the rifle/pistol range is an outdoor range with plenty of space to maintain separation, a majority of RSOs, who are mostly geezers like me, didn't want to be exposed. I can understand that, especially given the panic about the virus in Northern Virginia and in Washington DC.

The following data is from my last range visit on the 16th, the day before they closed the ranges.

Here is my most recent data.
Winds in the early morning were from 3 to 5 mph with temperatures rising pretty rapidly from 33 to 46 from 8 AM to 11 AM. The temps had risen to 36 degrees before I actually put the first round down range because I spent some time BSing with the RSO - a good friend.
I shot VV N140 powder, a temperature sensitive powder that I had loaded from 33 to 46 degrees based on my prediction of the temperatures over the time I intended to shoot. Even with the later than planned start, my predicted temperature was never off by more than 3 degrees from what I loaded for.

7005

[hamiltonkiler]

This will be the last entry for a while. They just closed our rifle/pistol range, the skeet and trap ranges, our indoor and outdoor archery ranges, and the indoor air pistol/air rifle range because of the corona virus.
Even though the rifle/pistol range is an outdoor range with plenty of space to maintain separation, a majority of RSOs, who are mostly geezers like me, didn't want to be exposed. I can understand that, especially given the panic about the virus in Northern Virginia and in Washington DC.

The following data is from my last range visit on the 16th, the day before they closed the ranges.

Here is my most recent data.
Winds in the early morning were from 3 to 5 mph with temperatures rising pretty rapidly from 33 to 46 from 8 AM to 11 AM. The temps had risen to 36 degrees before I actually put the first round down range because I spent some time BSing with the RSO - a good friend.
I shot VV N140 powder, a temperature sensitive powder that I had loaded from 33 to 46 degrees based on my prediction of the temperatures over the time I intended to shoot. Even with the later than planned start, my predicted temperature was never off by more than 3 degrees from what I loaded for.

7005

I’m I reading that the smk grouped better than the tmk?
Dang.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CFJunkie]

hamiltonkiler,

Very good question.

The Mar 16 session result with the 77 TMKs is probably the effect of shooter induced variation for this test.
I find that for any session, there is usually one load that is an outlier.
I just don't maintain concentration like I used to.
Actually, the long term results with all powders show that the TMKs have a slight edge (0.006 on average) but there are a lot more groups shot with the 77 TMKs than the SMKs.
Also, note that the 77 grain bullets (combined SMK & TMK) have a better long term average than the 69 grain bullets and that the 69 SMKs and TMKs perform almost identically.
7006
Considering the standard deviations from 0.052 to 0.070, the TMKs are the more consistent bullet. but the

When you look at powder bullet combinations, the results vary some, but the overall results are still pretty darn good.

7007
Note that the best loads with both the 77 SMKs and 77 TMKs with IMR4166 powder are identical and 0.002 better than the best average load 77 SMK using N140 powder. With this small a sample and such similar results, one or possibly two groups that were out of the norm could effect the results.

For the 69 grain bullets, the best load (0.248) is also shared by a 69 TMK and 69 SMK, but the best powder bullet average is with the 69 SMK using N140 powder is 0.006 better than the best TMK average using IMR4166 powder and 0.008 better than a TMK using N140 powder.
The N140 77 grain TMK overall average is the result of the Mar 16 data. The average for 77 TMKs with N140 powder was 0.293 prior to the March 16th session that made drove up the average to 0.302.

[hamiltonkiler]

Awesome time and work you put in to provide this awesome information and confirmation.
If it means anything to anyone. Not only are they all super accurate at 100yds/m how ever your set up. The 77gn smk or tmk put more rounds on target out of a semi-gun at distance than any other bullet in the world.
US special forces use the round for a reason.
Pew pew

Great work CF
Cheers

[mnbogboy2]

Lot of reading & digesting in this thread.
The old saying, "a picture is worth a thousand words", would definitely apply here!...lol
Pictures of the actual targets would have been nice.

[CFJunkie]

I know some people may be impressed by a picture of a single target as the basis of a claim of accuracy.
Unfortunately, it takes more than a quick scan to learn anything and it takes more than shooting one group to improve your shooting technique.
Think about how many target pictures I would have to show from just one session or from the year of shooting that made up the table in post #51.
There are 471 groups summarized on that table in post #51.
Even those who are picture fanatics would be bored by that number of pictures.
Fortunately, a summary like that in post #51 shows the relative performance recorded for one particular rifle in the hands of one shooter.
Unfortunately, the results might be different for a different rifle of the same nomenclature in the hands of the same shooter and almost guaranteed different in the hands of a different shooter using the original rifle.

IMO, one target picture means nothing and is worthless to make any conclusions.
Basing an 'accuracy boast' on one 'best' target picture will just mislead the readers because all the other groups shot are not considered.
One target also doesn't say anything about the accuracy of the rifle or the capability of the shooter.
Only a statistically valid number of groups allows conclusions about a bullet, powder, and rifle.

As you can see from the data I post, I base my conclusions on at least tens of groups.
If I find a powder-bullet combination that really works, the number of groups could be in the hundreds because I really like to shoot small groups and concentrate my shooting on combinations that work.

[mnbogboy2]

471 groups will be plenty to look at while most of us are in lockdown! .... lol...along with the data would be a great way to pass the time.
Nice test though.

[CFJunkie]

Given that we're all marooned during the lockdown, I guess it would.
But I'm not sure any 'Team Savage' subscription level would give me enough storage to post all those pictures.
I'm already pushing my limits as it is.
It's a good thought in the right frame of mind, though. :rolleyes:

[david12601]

Hi CF....i was wondering if you have tried n540 in any of your trials ???? Also if you could share your case prep and loading procedure.......thanks and Be Safe

[CFJunkie]

i haven't tried N540, probably because N140 worked so well for me in my .308s and my .223s that I always bought it in 8 lb jugs. Early on, I tried N150 in my .30-06 and .270 long actions and in my 6.5mm CMs but I never bothered to try N540 for some reason.

As for case prep:
I always deprime with a Lee universal deprimer die on a separate press to keep my resizing dies clean and then tumble the brass with steel pins using Dawn and Lemishine.
Then I lube the brass and full resize.
I tumble again with a small bit of Dawn and dishwasher rinse solution - I find the rinse solution cleans off the soap scum and brightens the brass when dried.
I dry the brass in a dehumidifier then sort it by sized 'base to neck length' (trim length) so any group will have about the same trim length..
I try to avoid trimming if I can. I am not a zealot to achieve an exact trim length because I can adjust for it to get the velocity I want by adjusting seating depth (see below).

I calculate the average trim length for each load of 25 rounds based upon the average of the 25 brass.

Then I swag the inside and outside of each brass to eliminate any burrs so the seating die doesn't hang up and each pull of the press will feel just about the same.

As to loading procedure:
Given that I have sorted the brass and swaged and primed it, I choose a powder and charge for each load to get the exit time of each round to match the reflection of the barrel steel for each rifle.
I use QuickLOAD software for all my load charge calculations and adjust for temperature if I am using a temperature sensitive powder.
I consider the temperature based upon an hourly forecast for the range I am shooting at and adjust each load for the closest hourly temperature based upon my knowledge of my rate of fire. I'm usually within 2 deg. F. unless a front comes through or I get interrupted.
I choose an even reflection to get the shock wave at the chamber instead of at or near the muzzle.
That eliminates harmonics at the muzzle and keeps the crown as tight as it will ever be.
For this 12 FV 26-inch Savage factory barrel used in this thread, the 12th reflection is 1.361 msec. when using the 77 grain bullets. With certain powders, I can use the 10th reflection 1.134 msec. if I stay with 69 grain bullets. With bullets under 60 grains, I use the 1.134 msec. 10th reflection.
I choose the nearest reflection that keeps the charge under the Pmax for this .223 cartridge, the specific powder and the bullet weight.

Since seating depth length increments of 0.002 increases the exit time by 0.001 msec. and a reduction of trim length does the same, I balance any differences in trim length after sorting with adjusting the seating depth.
I set my dies to achieve a jump of around 0.020 inches for most rifles, definitely for this one. Then when I get the powder and charge near the required exit time, I adjust the seating depth a bit to get an exact exit time to match the reflection I have chosen.

I measure all my rounds from case base to ogive to eliminate any tip variations (most HPBT match bullets have more variation than the tipped bullets).
I usually get a load set of 25 rounds to vary about +/- 0.001 CBTO but when I have a really good day, I can get the entire 25 rounds in a load within 0.001 total.
I sort the rounds in a load from smallest to largest so any group has the minimal amount of variation in jump from first to last round fired.

I hope that gives you an idea of how I load.

[mnbogboy2]

After reading both threads from start to finish i finally re-read theh title. My thoughts were this was a comparison test of the factory stock to the Oryx. My bad. Finally realized the dates didn't match and you were not switching stocks during each session. So there is no apples to apples comparison here.
Interesting read though.

[CFJunkie]

Sorry, many of the readers were following my two other threads - one for each rifle with the factory stock - on the Ammunition and Reloading forum.

The thread for the 12 FV .223 is:
First results with new 12 FV .223 (http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?63914-First-results-with-new-12-FV-223)A related thread for this rifle is:
Will 77 grain bullets stabilize in a 1:9 twist barrel? (http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?64814-Will-77-grain-bullets-stabilize-in-a-1-9-twist-barrel)
If you are into 6.5mm Creedmoor rifles, the original post on the Ammo & Reloading forum was
Results with Savage 12 FV 6.5mm Creedmoor (http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?63926-Results-with-Savage-12-FV-6-5mm-Creedmoor)
The Oryx stock post for the 6.5mm Creedmoor is on this 110 Series Bolt-Action forum:
Trying the Oryx chassis on the 12 FV 6.5mm Creedmoor (http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?64662-Trying-the-Oryx-chassis-on-the-12-FV-6-5mm-Creedmoor)