"inexpensive?" 2000 yd group and score based on a 111 action

[yobuck]

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Thanks for providing this forum Jim. Some of us know and some don't.
Thats very true, and it also dosent hurt to be reminded on occaission that nothing in life worth having is actually free.
I left my paid membership run out a couple years ago, but you know what? im gonna renew it because I enjoy being here even though I don't use the classifieds or build my own guns.

[yobuck]

well ran into a problem wit the new build. the bullet i chose, a 220 solid does not have a bc
to support super sonic at 2000. its a new bullet, not even out yet, but i just got some prelim test
data. looks like i am stuck with 230 berger...not really stuck. it is a good bullet, just not a solid.
i'll take a peak at a 240.
Well regardless of the bullet choice and BC number, there needs to be velocity to make it all happen.
I would assume that there are different classifications for the matches you are shooting.
Otherwise it makes no sence to be using a 300 Win Mag at those distances, or frankly a 338 Edge either.
Which is why Shawn Carlock, the creator of that cartridge and probably a member of that group, created a larger one.
Ditto with Mr. Brozinski as for the larger cartridges and being a member there.

[Robinhood]

We got more drama in here than a bus full of Cross Dressers in a Wig Shop.

[yobuck]

We got more drama in here than a bus full of Cross Dressers in a Wig Shop.
Used to be you would have to hang out in bars for this type of "intelligent" discussion? lol

[Ted_Feasel]

I would say if someone doesnt know you can build precision on a basic savage action they either have a axe to grind or have just never tried. I have several savage rifles that I've done no more than a barrel swap, trigger tune and stock swap ( $1000 dollar build ups)and I'm shooting .00X groups. Then again, if people like spending 5 to 8k on a custom more power to em:)

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[mikeinco]

well since you appear to claim it cannot be done, you must be a keyboard shooter.
if you have read,i have shot my mk13 sniper in long range matches for some time. one went 875 to 2023 at steel.
no sighters, single shot for score with a 1/2 value second shot if the first was a miss.
i shot last years 2000yard group and score match at townsend.
i shot the matches because i HAVE THE RIFLE pretty simple.
the ballistics work in spite your poor keyboard math.
this rifle is almost done.
the good news is i can delete naysayers
bye

Well regardless of the bullet choice and BC number, there needs to be velocity to make it all happen.
I would assume that there are different classifications for the matches you are shooting.
Otherwise it makes no sence to be using a 300 Win Mag at those distances, or frankly a 338 Edge either.
Which is why Shawn Carlock, the creator of that cartridge and probably a member of that group, created a larger one.
Ditto with Mr. Brozinski as for the larger cartridges and being a member there.

[mikeinco]

sorry while your basic statement is correct,
"and I'm shooting .00X groups."
is pure bs
the world record stood for about 40 years as 0.009, and was recently broken and set as 0.007.


I would say if someone doesnt know you can build precision on a basic savage action they either have a axe to grind or have just never tried. I have several savage rifles that I've done no more than a barrel swap, trigger tune and stock swap ( $1000 dollar build ups)and I'm shooting .00X groups. Then again, if people like spending 5 to 8k on a custom more power to em:)

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[mikeinco]

thanks for posting pics of the 338 edge.
there is over $8000 in PARTS in that rifle.

[mikeinco]

the low dollar project is almost complete.
i actually fired 3 rounds yesterday
2800 fps will be doabale with rl26,
and 2900 with n570
the bbl is comming off and going out for a treatment

[Ted_Feasel]

sorry while your basic statement is correct,
"and I'm shooting .00X groups."
is pure bs
the world record stood for about 40 years as 0.009, and was recently broken and set as 0.007.There are 4 through the same hole at little over 100 yards. I spent 4 zeroing the scope then drove 4 through the same hole.. pretty sure that would qualify as 00X... xp trophy 11 action, shilen barrel, houge stock and light spring for accu adjustable from northland shooter supply.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/837862bf213dbfe7bd98ff5ebf4daa49.jpg

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[mikeinco]

sorry, i have measures competition targets for over 15 years.
no it is not
it is a great group, it is not a 0.00x

There are 4 through the same hole at little over 100 yards. I spent 4 zeroing the scope then drove 4 through the same hole.. pretty sure that would qualify as 00X... xp trophy 11 action, shilen barrel, houge stock and light spring for accu adjustable from northland shooter supply.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190602/837862bf213dbfe7bd98ff5ebf4daa49.jpg

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[Ted_Feasel]

sorry, i have measures competition targets for over 15 years.
no it is not
it is a great group, it is not a 0.00xWhat would you measure it then, when you flattened it out it would measure anywhere from .308 to .315 diameter... that is a .007 spread.. I'll give you the one that hit a touch low but the main group had .007 in differences... obviously it's a. 308 rifle

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[mikeinco]

a i do not have the target
b you cannot measure worth krap on that coated paper
c even in the pic you can clearly see the Hole is not ROUND
d flattening the target distorts the hole.
if you want to believe you shoot 0.00x, go ahead, but in the real world it has happened
TWICE in 40 plus years. neither time was it you.

What would you measure it then, when you flattened it out it would measure anywhere from .308 to .315 diameter... that is a .007 spread.. I'll give you the one that hit a touch low but the main group had .007 in differences... obviously it's a. 308 rifle

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[Ted_Feasel]

a i do not have the target
b you cannot measure worth krap on that coated paper
c even in the pic you can clearly see the Hole is not ROUND
d flattening the target distorts the hole.
if you want to believe you shoot 0.00x, go ahead, but in the real world it has happened
TWICE in 40 plus years. neither time was it you.You said it all in A: , you dont have the target.. pretty much makes all the rest of your ASSUMPTIONS moot.. 3 people measured including army marksmanship Instructor... biggest that was came up with was .315 on the wholes diameter...

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[mikeinco]

you cannot shoot groups on a paper that has a coating on it
you cannot measure a group if you flatten the target afterwards.
you cannot ASSume that a 30 cal bullet leaves a 0.308 dia hole in a pc of paper, they do not most of the time
an army marksmanship instructor does not measure groups with the precision required for 0.00..they do not measure groups as part of their job.
you can believe and do what you want,
it is a great group...for the 4 shots.
your picture clearly show a non-round hole visible to the naked eye....it aint 0.00x
please go start your own thread on great groups


You said it all in A: , you dont have the target.. pretty much makes all the rest of your ASSUMPTIONS moot.. 3 people measured including army marksmanship Instructor... biggest that was came up with was .315 on the wholes diameter...

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[yobuck]

well since you appear to claim it cannot be done, you must be a keyboard shooter.
if you have read,i have shot my mk13 sniper in long range matches for some time. one went 875 to 2023 at steel.
no sighters, single shot for score with a 1/2 value second shot if the first was a miss.
i shot last years 2000yard group and score match at townsend.
i shot the matches because i HAVE THE RIFLE pretty simple.
the ballistics work in spite your poor keyboard math.
this rifle is almost done.
the good news is i can delete naysayers
bye

Yes you do have that option.
But one option you don't have is deleting the results you will get shooting at 2000 yds with a 300 WM.
But then you can always select what you do and dont post.
Fact is I owned a 300 WM in the late 60s into the early 70s built on a lefty Savage action, long before there were any numbers crunchers on keyboards.
Using the same bullet it might have had about a max 250 yard advantage over my 30/06, "without rechecking my keyboard". lol
So where does the 2000 yd thing now come from?
Can we then also assume that a 30/06 would now be "competitive" at a mile?
As for the world records, no official "long range group records" have been held for even 15 years, let alone almost 40.

[mikeinco]

you have clearly be asleep at the trigger.
large steps have been made in ballistics since the 70's
just because you are stuck in the past does not mean the rest of the world is.
a 30'06 today can get with in 100 fps of what the original 300 win mag did with a 190.

here are some numbers for you to go crunch if you know how.
230 berger, 2913 fps elevation is 4000 ft super sonic past 2000 yards

quit mixing converstaions. the 15/40 years is a conversation about
ONE HUNDRED YARD GROUPS. WAS .009 FOR OVER 40 YEARS, with in the last 5 years
broken by a 0.007
the current 2000 yd record is 14 plus inches (.7mua) and a score of 47.
where did the 2000 yard thing come from, simple. a group of guys that shoot ik competition wanted
something longer. so we tried 2k and liked it. three classes

just because you cannot FIGURE OUT how do do something, does not mean it cannot be done.
in last years 2k match one of the rifles was 300 wsm, he out shot me with my lowly 300 wm.


Yes you do have that option.
But one option you don't have is deleting the results you will get shooting at 2000 yds with a 300 WM.
But then you can always select what you do and dont post.
Fact is I owned a 300 WM in the late 60s into the early 70s built on a lefty Savage action, long before there were any numbers crunchers on keyboards.
Using the same bullet it might have had about a max 250 yard advantage over my 30/06, "without rechecking my keyboard". lol
So where does the 2000 yd thing now come from?
Can we then also assume that a 30/06 would now be "competitive" at a mile?
As for the world records, no official "long range group records" have been held for even 15 years, let alone almost 40.

[Ted_Feasel]

I think team global precision hit over 6000 yards. Probably apples and oranges but dang, over 3 miles.. that's fun!!

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[yobuck]

you have clearly be asleep at the trigger.
large steps have been made in ballistics since the 70's
just because you are stuck in the past does not mean the rest of the world is.
a 30'06 today can get with in 100 fps of what the original 300 win mag did with a 190.

here are some numbers for you to go crunch if you know how.
230 berger, 2913 fps elevation is 4000 ft super sonic past 2000 yards

quit mixing converstaions. the 15/40 years is a conversation about
ONE HUNDRED YARD GROUPS. WAS .009 FOR OVER 40 YEARS, with in the last 5 years
broken by a 0.007
the current 2000 yd record is 14 plus inches (.7mua) and a score of 47.
where did the 2000 yard thing come from, simple. a group of guys that shoot ik competition wanted
something longer. so we tried 2k and liked it. three classes

just because you cannot FIGURE OUT how do do something, does not mean it cannot be done.
in last years 2k match one of the rifles was 300 wsm, he out shot me with my lowly 300 wm.

Let me clue you in on something if I may.
The figuring out part of shooting long distance was done by those who determined how to set up rifle scopes so that one could accuratly dial a scope to a specific distance. It had nothing at all to do with the cartridges being used or anything else.
Also be aware that prior to "about" the mid 80s there were no scope manufacturers offering rifle scopes having the ability to dial for long distance. Many if not most of the wonderfull scopes we enjoy today didn't even exist in the 80s including Nightforce.
The only scopes made that were suitable for dialing were the target type made by Unertle, Lyman, Fecker, Litchert, and possibly a few other I dont remember. All of those had external micrometer type rear mounts that allowed for dialing. They were all attached to the rifle by way of two small blocks screwed onto the rifle. Problem was that none of that type regardless of the scope brand allowed for accurate dialing as far as 1/8, 1/4, min etc, and fact is most shooters using those scopes didn't even realize that.
They had a book containing the dope needed to get from 50 yds to 100 or 200 or even in some cases to 1000 yds. But move that same scope to another gun and the dope was useless. So that also meant that the many varmit shooters using those scope weren't dialing with them but simply just holding and shooting.
At some point somebody figured out that by placing the mounting blocks at a specific distance apart, you could control the dial to a specific distance for each click. Now im not implying that the micrometer dial itself wasent made with a specific distance in place, but it wasent common knowledge that the scope block spacing was crucial in order for it to happen.
In 1973 I took a new custom Hart#4 sleeved action with a 30" Hart 1"250 straight taper 9 twist .284 barrel to Howard Wolfe for him to build me my first long range benchrest gun using a 300 Wby case necked to 7mm. Hart which was then managed by Walley Hart, who is Bobby Harts father was very upset with me over the cartridge I was planning to use. Their policy was to only chamber for factory cartridges, no wildcats. When I delivered the barreled action to Howard later that same day I told him about the incident at Harts.
He just shook his head, and said you know what, he is clueless about this stuff. Just take a look at how he drilled the action and sleeve for the scope blocks. I frankly didn't know either at that point, so I asked what he meant. He said well you wont be able to have 1/4 minit clicks with the way the holes are drilled, I will have to redrill them. Now that was 1973, and that was Hart Rifles, not just anybody.
The spacing for 1/4 min clicks was 7.25" o c for the scope blocks. I say was, because since the 80s pretty much everybody has moved away from the old external adjusted type scopes, and very few have any knowledge at all about any of what im even talking about.
But the fact remains that it was and still is what made/makes accurate long range shooting possible.
Earl Chronister, who I knew well as a result of his hunting in the same area as me, set a new world record for 10 shots at Williamsport in around 1986 without my rechecking. His group for the 10 shots was in laymans terms 3 and 3/4 inches. He did that using a Hart barreled 30x378 with "250" gr Smks, using a Unertle scope. The current world record for 10 shots in the "heavy gun" class is also held by a Williamsport shooter using a 300 WSM, and is roughly 0ne inch smaller than Earls group.
SO, that means that while I was sleeping all these years lol, the ball has actually been moved forward about one inch since the mid 80s.
And that would include many hundreds of shooters, some of them among the best in the world for that type shooting,
sending probably millions of rounds in the effort to set a new 1000 yd record. Note I said 1000, not 2000.
But then if we send enough hail mary passes down the field, sooner or later somebody will catch one and win a game. lol
Fact is that the first batch of 162 gr Hornady match bullets I bought for that new gun in the early 70s, had a higher BC # than the same ones they make today of that same type. The powder we used in some cartridges during that time frame are also still better for that use than any made since. Admittedly however progress has been made with regard to components, just not all of them as has been implied.
Are we not also seeing higher velocities with 300 Win mags today than we did when all we had was 4350 or 4831?
How long now have we had 7828 for example?
Apperently what we actually have is a steady flow of new people discovering new things, and thinking it is unique to todays time frame.

[Robinhood]

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