Sorting cases

[DesertDug]

Do you do it? To what scale? Full grain, 10th, 100th grain? How many cases do you keep prepped at that weight?

[98dyna]

I bought 4000 F-C once fired casings 3-4 years ago. I cleaned and processed all the brass, then sorted the brass out in .5 grain groups from low to high. The smallest groups of brass were the very lowest and highest weights so I sold that brass. I kept the middle groups and loaded them for my bolt rifles. I neck size my brass and I am on my 5th loading. I am pleased with the groups my rifle is shooting and have shot many a gopher with it. I believe it was worth my time to sort them out.

[Ted_Feasel]

Do you do it? To what scale? Full grain, 10th, 100th grain? How many cases do you keep prepped at that weight?Yes I do sort:) I have scales that goto 100th so that's what I go for, I also weigh my charges to the 100th gr. I probably have 100 of what I would consider high precision(that is to say weigh the same and have same volume), loads. The rest I prep and load for precision but they are not as tight on case weights.

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[DesertDug]

Also if sorting, what is your method of measuring volume?


I am starting the process and have been surprised of the spread in weight, must have bought some of those from 98dyna. ;)

[Robinhood]

Volume, especially fired cases is worthless for sorting brass unless you can confirm the exterior dimensions are the same. Two cases that weigh the same and when new had the exact same volume will measure differently if one case has been fired 3 times and resized. If primer pockets are uniformed and cases trimmed to length you may see a different weight but close to same volume. If you have a Wilson case trimmer you will understand. Unmodified cases from the same lot, weighed is the safest bet IMHO.

[Ted_Feasel]

Volume, especially fired cases is worthless for sorting brass unless you can confirm the exterior dimensions are the same. Two cases that weigh the same and when new had the exact same volume will measure differently if one case has been fired 3 times and resized. If primer pockets are uniformed and cases trimmed to length you may see a different weight but close to same volume. If you have a Wilson case trimmer you will understand. Unmodified cases from the same lot, weighed is the safest bet IMHO.I do, only on the handfull I load for extended range.. it would be far too time consuming to do it on all brass. When I get new brass, I sort by weight and then take all those that weigh the same and check by volume.. that lot of brass is always loaded identically and shot from the same shilen barrel and neck sized only. I've recheck all the volumes and weights after about 4 loads and they are all virtually the same.. maybe fractional variances here and there but not enough that I worry about it

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[bigedp51]

Quickload tells you to measure case capacity with cases fired in "YOUR" chamber. Below the Lake City case at the top at 30.6 and the bottom Lupua case at 28.0 capacity will cause the chamber pressure to vary 6,000 psi with the same charge of 25.0 grains of H335.


https://i.imgur.com/LjAQ7L9.jpg

Below you can see how little case weight varies with Lapua brass compared to the Remington and Winchester at the bottom. Meaning if you want quality and uniformity buy Lapua brass and forget weighing cases and checking capacity. And as you can see below the Lake City cases are kept to higher standards than our Remington and Winchester cases.

NOTE, the larger the case and its capacity the less effect it has on chamber pressure and velocity. Meaning a .223 case would be effected more by capacity than a 30-06 or larger cases.

https://i.imgur.com/PExmCCk.jpg

[Robinhood]

Keep in mind that those charts were made in 2007 or earlier. There have been some changes in many of those manufacturers. Some of those guys have radical changes from lot to lot. Small volume changes in a 223 will have a greater impact than on a 300 win mag.

[Ted_Feasel]

Keep in mind that those charts were made in 2007 or earlier. There have been some changes in many of those manufacturers. Some of those guys have radical changes from lot to lot. Small volume changes in a 223 will have a greater impact than on a 300 win mag.Not to mention there are far better choices than lapua that are not on those charts. If I was going to spend $100 for a 100 cases, I would by alpha brass but I wont spend that, it's not worth it when I can buy 500 of the brand I use for less than $100 and by sorting them get more than 100 easy that have tighter deviations then any listed there and I'm still getting 16 sometimes more reloads on rifle brass, I have handgun brass with 40+ reloads on it, and I still hundreds of cases left that can be sorted Into other weights that still have lower deviations.. lapua , alpha just not worth it for me.. for those that it is worth it, more power to ya:)

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[yobuck]

Does anybody sort while shooting?

[Ted_Feasel]

Does anybody sort while shooting?Lol.. kinda.. I use brass catchers and I only reload like for like.. example, I have 3 308 rifles, I have a batch of brass for each. I dont mix what's been shot from one to be shot in another and also keep them on the same reload count.. say I have 50 rounds and I only shoot 20 that day, the empties go in the box with the 30 unfired and then I will reload them all at once.. may seem a little anal to some but it helps I think

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[yobuck]

Lol.. kinda.. I use brass catchers and I only reload like for like.. example, I have 3 308 rifles, I have a batch of brass for each. I dont mix what's been shot from one to be shot in another and also keep them on the same reload count.. say I have 50 rounds and I only shoot 20 that day, the empties go in the box with the 30 unfired and then I will reload them all at once.. may seem a little anal to some but it helps I think

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Well joking aside, does a high shot in a group mean anything?
If we have 4 shots touching, then one higher for example.
Or does sorting by weighing cases eliminate that?

[Robinhood]

Vertical stringing can have many causes. I believe you know what I'm going to say and more, but I will bite....Rifle balance, variations of charge weight and many more. The object of sorting is to eliminate pressure variations when all else is spot on. The process pays dividends for many shooting long range with smaller cartridges.

[CFJunkie]

yobuck,

I think you are right on with your question!

Considering all the myriad of variables that could also cause a higher POI, I would say possibly, but I could never be sure what really caused it.
Personally, when a shot goes high, I suspect my own induced variables (eye position versus the scope rear objective, bounce off the rest, trigger pull, etc.) before I would blame the more minor variations caused by case weight, charge variations, trim length variations, temperature, and wind gusts.

Having fought for years to try and minimize my own induced variations, I can pretty well identify the things that I did or forgot to do that might make a shot go high or low.
Occasionally, I have no clue about what might have caused the change in POI - that's when I chalk it up to any or all the other external combinations that might have caused it.
But good luck trying to figure out what the variation, or combination of possible variations, might have been.
There is always the temptation to blame the one variation that you have at the top of your list, but there is no way I know of to be sure your suspect was the culprit.

[yobuck]

Vertical stringing can have many causes. I believe you know what I'm going to say and more, but I will bite....Rifle balance, variations of charge weight and many more. The object of sorting is to eliminate pressure variations when all else is spot on. The process pays dividends for many shooting long range with smaller cartridges.
Well is there a difference between sorting cases, and weighing cases?
Accuracy minded shooters have known for eons of time that variances in cases can cause consistant accuracy issues.
But would separating say Lake City brass by weight for example, be more acceptable/accurate than separating it by performance?
I mean if I just shot a nice group, I should still weigh the brass?
As for precise weighing of charges, if a 1/10th grain difference is important, why then dosent even much larger differences always show in a group? Don't good groups matter? Or is it that they don't matter enough?
Im not sure about today, but years back many Varmit class benchrest shooters didn't even bother weighing charges, just relying on an accurate powder measure instead. Like an accurized Lyman 55 for example done by Neil Jones or somebody.
So I think it can be appropriate to question the "actual" benefit of some of the things we hear being done in the quest for accuracy.
Not many years back freezing barrels in order to "align the molecules" was also considered very important. Im not aware that any barrel makers did it however.
I have no doubt that certain cartridges tend to be more consistently accurate than others. Certainly years ago the PPC case did that, and the short mag case might have an edge in that area also. Ditto with the Dasher and others similar.
But by and large I think the consistant improvement in scores and groups came about by better barrels and bullets being made today by better machines used to make them. And thats especially so at long range.

All most shooters care about is shooting a good group.
And fact is that if they can do that with whatever gun they choose, they will have all they need to satisfy the requirements of hitting things, including things a long ways off.
They for sure wont be equipted to compete in long range benchrest matches, but then time has proven over many years that most others weren't either. lol
The possible accuracy gains based on the effort spent, not to mention cost for better dies etc, probably cant be justified by the average shooter.
Besides, there is a way to offset a miss regardless of the reason for it when shooting at an animal, and that is to immediatly forget about it, and send another right now. Unlike rifle matches, those that do usually win.

[big honkin jeep]

Does anybody sort while shooting?

Many years ago on a whim I did sort spent cartridges by where the bullet hit the target and separated those that went into the bullseye. Mind you this was on a 116 in 30-06 hunting rig with a 3-9x Vari x2 not a "competition" rifle. The ones that hit the bullseye did indeed seem to repeat when reloaded.
This was non scientific but I did manage a best 10 shot group of .446 using that brass with CCI BR2s, IMR4350, and 165gr HPBT Game Kings.
Not bad for the ol outdated (LOL) dirty ought6

I also weighed a bunch of .223 that I had in a big ammo can and separated it into ziplocs. There was so much of it I separated it by setting up a beam balance and putting the ones that zeroed into one bag, and the ones that were heavier into a bag, and the ones that were lighter into a bag. The heavier and lighter ones I loaded for bulk shooting from the ARs and the ones that were in the middle for bolt rifles. Though again far from laboratory perfection, it did seem to make a pretty big difference.