Cleaning/Accuracy

[hunterdan]

J.Baker,

I'm not sure that you found a 'dirty barrel sweet spot' or just experienced delay in getting your concentration back after a 45 minute layoff.
At my age, I expect concentration lapses even when I haven't been interrupted.

Last week, I shot 100 rounds through one rifle with 4 closely related loads of 25 rounds each in 5 shot groups. That rifle is well broken in with over 4,000 rounds down the tube.
I measured all of the groups and found little difference, within an expected standard deviation, in the average group size except for about 4 groups that I managed to screw up with one shot when I didn't stick to my routine - probably due to lapses in concentration.
It was pretty cold so I didn't have severe barrel heating problems but I did notice that by the last groups of each load, the POI was slightly lower then it was on the first group. This particular rifle drops the POI by about 1/4 inch when the barrel temperature gets above 113 degrees and toward 122 degrees on the temperature strip that I have on the barrel.

The group average group size on the first and 3rd loads were slightly better than the 2nd and 4th loads, but they were well within the statistical range of the overall average for the day and the standard deviation of the 20 groups.
I would say that would probably mean that there wasn't a 'dirty barrel sweet spot' for that session.

Just for the record, I would describe 'fouling a barrel' as clearing out the residue from cleaning and providing a light coating of powder residue.
I am a firm believer that a hunting rifle should be 'fouled' before going hunting.
I just won't take a hunting rifle into the field just after cleaning because I have not experienced that it will provide a predictable POI with a newly cleaned barrel.
It may just be me and how I was trained.

But I set up a fouled barrel so that the POI is at the POA from a very cold barrel because that is how I expect to shoot when hunting.
I wouldn't call shooting 60 or 100 rounds fouling. That is far past fouling - it results in a dirty barrel and I would expect to clean the barrel when I was finished with the session.
But I don't expect that the accuracy of a rifle should be effected by that kind of use.
If it was, I would be disappointed.
In fact, I regularly shoot those kind of sessions with just about all my rifles and don't notice any drop off in accuracy during the session or on the last groups shot.

I completely agree on fouling the barrel before going on a hunt. When shooting 60-100 rd sessions are your barrels factory savage barrels are custom barrels? Thx

[CFJunkie]

hunterdan,

All of my Savages have factory Savage barrels, although for my oldest .308, I had Savage replace the original barrel with a fluted target barrel after over 6.500 rounds.

The factory replacement barrel actually shoots more accurately than the original factory barrel. It now has 3,600 rounds through it and is shooting better than ever.

[Texas10]

When I encountered that issue with factory Savage barrels, I found that i was not cleaning as well as I thought, and leaving some copper in the barrel. And at the range, I'd start seeing a fall off in accuracy just as I was getting really settled in. Very frustrating!

"Clean" is a relative term, so how do you verify if you've really "cleaned" the barrel? If you're relying solely on patch color, you're probably leaving a lot of fouling in the factory barrel. Only by employing a bore scope or endoscope where you can actually see to verify your cleaning methods and eliminate all the guesswork, regardless of what fluids or compounds you use in the process will you know for sure your barrel is free of copper and powder residue.

So tell us how you verify the degree to which your barrel is clean, and this may lead to some suggestions on how to get better performance from your factory barrels.

[darkker]

There are some hard facts in accuracy and the maintenance of the barre.
Fact 1 Barrel manufactures states that a very clean barrel is the most accurate.

I would like for you shooters could report some facts on how you breakin and shoot. And how many shoots fired makes your gun shoot the most accurate. How did you maintain your barrel when new.
Thanks
Except Gale McMillan, who specifically and vocally claims it's a barrel maker invention to sell more barrels... To the perfectly straight part, you haven't been to Savage, or watched the video that used to be here, where Savage bends them the opposite direction of a bow; to straighten them.:becky:

I clean when accuracy falls off, each rifle is different. Best is in the 200 round range, one POS it's about the 40 round mark.
I don't "break-in" barrels. This gorilla with a nylon brush with some overpriced cleaning concoction isn't going to be doing anything for Smoothing out burrs, compared to a copper swage at high velocity, being pushed by 60,000psi, followed closely by plasma, and the sandblasting of powder tumbling down the bore.

But if it makes you feel better about things, clean away.

[Ryfulman]

I’m actually a minimal invasion kinda guy. So I only clean when the gun becomes inconsistent. When my 22-250 was still a 12 twist I used the 53 grain vmax and slung me anywhere from 3600-4000ft/s. That rifle would rip a ragged hole with pretty much any load. The barrel would run 400-500 rounds before I’d pull an Otis brand snake thru it and clean the powder fouling from it. That barrel was as low Mai tensnce as it came,and was the gun that sold me on savage rifles.
I’ve also got a model 10t in 308. Incredible how consistent the rifle is with almost anything I feed it from 150-190 grains. I pull a snake thru that maybe annually,up to 500 rounds even.
My 260 has a shilen tube. I’ve never cleaned the copper from it. Over 1000 rounds and still sub 1/2moa.
I feel like once the barrel achieves copper equilibrium velocity increases an easy 100ft/s because of the tighter,slicker surface.
The key to consistency in the field is consistency in the gear. Most pro shooters keep a bore that’s perfectly spotless as it ensures a consistent component
Instead of keeping my bore spotless I allow it to achieve copper equilibrium at which point it takes as much copper with it as it leaves behind,and thus maintaining a consistent surface on the component.
And becaus I’ve acquired all my load data shooting in this manner I expect it to perform as it always does.
Load development is crucial. The fine details for the specific chamber and rifle. Optimizing each detail so even if environmentals change you know the load is going to remain consistent. Finding a wide node is the key. The hum