New 110 Scout Rifle, factory peep sights are not workable

[dirtroadrunner]

I purchased a new 110 Scout rifle in .308 a few weeks ago and decided to try and master the factory peep sights before buying an optic. I've shot it twice now - once in the woods and once at an actual range. When I shot it in the woods, I got the rifle sighted in OK at around 25 yards, but it would hit nearly a foot high at 120 yards with the back sight nearly all the day down. At the range, I could barely get it to hit on the paper at 50 yards and many of my shots went right over the top of the target and into the backstop - no matter where I set the rear sight elevation.

I took it back home, lined a long straightedge up on the picatinny rail, and found that the center of the rear Williams peep was a good 3/16" higher than the top of the front blade, even with the rear sight adjusted all of the way down. No wonder I couldn't hit anything - either the factory front sight is too low or the Williams peep is just too high.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GFTwyqqDeoyrzBB59

Has anyone else experienced this? It's a bit frustrating to have a brand new $700 gun with factory sights that aren't workable. I contacted Savage via email and sent them pictures showing the situation, hopefully they will rectify the issue.

Pics of sights against straightedge:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zMjemP6YnPmmCvsy6

https://photos.app.goo.gl/TKKWS8xSn8i1tKG86https://photos.app.goo.gl/6nHQBcbZBCLzwGNu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6nHQBcbZBCLzwGNu7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gVk46xsY8EFMnKH18
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Uztwa4yxQisRCvpR6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NZeUNNFZPrZgDjJK7

[J.Baker]

Haven't handled one of the 110 Scouts, but the Model 11 Scout I reviewed a few years ago didn't suffer from that issue. Maybe they changed suppliers for the sights or the supplier screwed up or ?? Savage customer service is usually very good so hopefully they'll get you taken care of promptly. I would however recommend calling rather than emailing as their response to emails has been less than reliable based on others experiences here.

[Back2Wyo]

I replaced the rear peep sight on my 110 with a Williams Ghost ring sight that has a green fiber optic that gives you 2 dots on each side. It's designed for shotguns but it's fits the rear base with no problems. I have not tried the sight yet, as I've been working with my Scout scope. I do find that the front of the rail covers up the bottom half of the front sight and I may make modifications to the front of the rail by having a tapered channel milled in front of the rail screw at the end of the receiver to the front of the rail.

Also, what ammo are you shooting? I find that my Scout likes 175 grain bullets (Sig 175 gr Match). I've tried some 150 gr and they were inconsistent (depending on the brand, I.e. Winchester white box, Armscor, Aquilia).

[dirtroadrunner]

Thanks for the responses. I'll give Savage a couple of days and then call them if I don't hear back. I wanted to send them some pics so they don't just think I'm a terrible shot :).

So far I've been shooting Magtec budget ammo with 168-grain Sierra Match King bullets. They seemed to shoot OK, but it's hard to tell with the sights having issues. When I was shooting it yesterday at the range, I had a one-inch group at 25-yards (though it was a good 8 inches above where I was aiming and barely on the target...). I'll switch to something different for hog and deer hunting.

On a sidenote, has anyone installed a Lyman 57 rear sight on these guns? Looks reasonably-price and easier to adjust than the factory Williams sight. I like the idea of peep sights and don't want to give up on them yet, especially because most of the hunting around here is all in the woods at distances of well less than 100 yards.

[Back2Wyo]

I haven't looked at the Lyman. I do use the Vortex Crossfire II 2-7 Scout scope. I have >1 moa at 100 from the bench with a rest with the 175's. I'll be working with the iron sights once the weather warms up out of the 30's from the rest to get a zero.

[doowroh]

I am having the EXACT same issue. I bought this rifle with the intention of using the Williams/iron sights only. I'm shooting at least 2" high at 100m (109y) with 168 gn hand loads. My rear sight is lowered to the point where it's barely clear of the rear baffle on the bolt, and I'm still at least 2" high. Savage USA asked me to return the rifle to them until they realized that I'm in Canada - womp womp womp. Now I'm dealing with Savage Canada, but their process is entirely different. I want to love this rifle, but we're off to a rocky start. I'm going to wait for Savage Canada to step up to the plate (or fall of it, depending on their answer). I know of at least one other 110 Scout owner in Canada who reports the exact same issue.

https://i.imgur.com/nf5h9V4.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/EBdtj3F.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/RW8HHC0.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/hWwqiX3.jpg?1

Bottom line is that the front sight is too low.

I'm looking into other winged/protected front sight options, like Mini 14/30, or if my dreams come true, and adjustable height front post like the M16A2 style front post. I expect they will require gunsmithing to some degree.

Let's keep this post going...

[Back2Wyo]

Have you moved the rear peep up? That should move the front sight blade down.

[doowroh]

Have you moved the rear peep up? That should move the front sight blade down.

Actually that’s not the way I see it... Move the rear sight in the same direction you wish to move the point of impact, or move the front sight in the opposite direction you wish to move the point of impact. That’s what I’ve always been taught. Perhaps I misunderstand though.


https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4042304&postcount=3

[scootergisme]

If you wanted to lower the bullet impact on the target, you would lower the rear sight or raise the front sight.

[doowroh]

So I've spoken to Williams Gun Sight, and they immediately called out the front sight as being too low. They just couldn't understand why a factory front sight would:
a) be too low
b) not be able to be swapped out for the right height (they probably were thinking dovetail though).

I got a hold of someone at Savage, and they suggested I shoot and verify POI with their "accuracy load" before sending the rifle back to them.

https://i.imgur.com/2sZpZZL.jpg
So I went out and bought some Federal GMM 168 gn. factory ammunition and went shooting.

https://i.imgur.com/mPnuIKS.jpg?1

Here's my best 5 SHOT group shooting through the factory aperture sights at 100 meters (~109 yards). :confusion:

https://i.imgur.com/DLJIKez.jpg?1

I really don't want to send this rifle into Savage only to have them come back with a non-solution...
I would really also prefer not to put a scope on it...

[Robinhood]

Solder a brass pin to the top of the front sight. Or something similar.

[Dave Hoback]

Oh nevermind

[Dave Hoback]

Have you tried holding the front sight at the bottom of the aperture to see if it comes down?

Personally, I would lop off the split part of the front sight and fashion a piece of aluminum to the remaining portion. Make it higher and drill/tap for an AR15 front sight pin. Could do it pretty easy with basic tools.

[Steak n eggs]

2” on iron sights at 100 meters isn’t horrible, but it looks like yours is shooting close to 4 with no room to adjust. Pics of your front sight?... that’s where the trouble seems to be.

[doowroh]

The front sight is too low, that's for certain.

https://i.imgur.com/GnkxRdy.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/dWb9XTX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/A0PhfJ4.jpg?1

[Dave Hoback]

Like I said...cut off the 3 prongs and file the surface flat. Get a small piece of aluminum and fashion into a taller site you can attach via screw, or even 2-part epoxy. Drill/tap for an AR15 sight post and spray paint it black.

I would machine a completely new sight block, but I have that know how and machinery. What I recommend above can be easily done with some basic know how & tools, files, sandpaper.

[Robinhood]

I only have the photo to go by but I would place the front sight lower in the aperture. The picture shows way high. Try a 6 o'clock hold, where the bull is sitting on top of the sight.

[doowroh]

The photo on the tekmat is/was hard as balls to take with a phone camera. It is by no means aimed correctly (or how I would shoot it). Yes I agree I can aim for the "lollipop" as opposed for the centre of the bull, but either way, that still doesn't explain why a brand new gun (that comes with, and is strongly marketed for having factory sights) shoots this far from the centre of the target when set to its lowest elevation.

I'm also not ready to braze a brass pin, or mill/modify anything on this gun as it's already been requested to be sent in for evaluation by Savage, is 3 weeks old, a current model still in production, and has 49 more weeks of warranty left.

These are all viable, good ideas, but I want Savage to fix this. Part of me wonders if they just kind of "rolled the dice" with the iron sight accuracy banking on the fact that >95% of the people buying these guns will put a scope on it before ever firing their first shot.

Have a look a Hickock 45 and his review of the 11 Scout (not the 110 Scout). I sincerely doubt that Savage made major changes to the iron sights between the 11 Scout and the 110 Scout.
This guy is a good shooter, and he prefers iron sights. He misses a lot during this video.


https://youtu.be/DgeNtkszYbw

[Blackbeard Ben]

The photo on the tekmat is/was hard as balls to take with a phone camera. It is by no means aimed correctly (or how I would shoot it). Yes I agree I can aim for the "lollipop" as opposed for the centre of the bull, but either way, that still doesn't explain why a brand new gun (that comes with, and is strongly marketed for having factory sights) shoots this far from the centre of the target when set to its lowest elevation.

I'm also not ready to braze a brass pin, or mill/modify anything on this gun as it's already been requested to be sent in for evaluation by Savage, is 3 weeks old, a current model still in production, and has 49 more weeks of warranty left.

These are all viable, good ideas, but I want Savage to fix this. Part of me wonders if they just kind of "rolled the dice" with the iron sight accuracy banking on the fact that >95% of the people buying these guns will put a scope on it before ever firing their first shot.

Have a look a Hickock 45 and his review of the 11 Scout (not the 110 Scout). I sincerely doubt that Savage made major changes to the iron sights between the 11 Scout and the 110 Scout.
This guy is a good shooter, and he prefers iron sights. He misses a lot during this video.


https://youtu.be/DgeNtkszYbw

I'm glad to find out that I'm not the only one with this problem. In fact, I registered here just to join the conversation about it.

I bought my 110 Scout used - incidentally in store at Williams Gunsight from their used selection.

Upon taking it to their indoor range and attempting to sight it in, I found that it shot very high as it was set. At 25 yards, it was about 8 inches high (sorry, I don't have any pics) - barely on paper.

With help from a friend, I tried adjusting the rear sight down, but it bound on the mounting screw and wouldn't go any lower.

When our time at the range finished, I took it back to the gunsmithing counter and explained the problem to them. They were quite friendly and took it back into the shop, where they found that the counterbore for the mounting screw wasn't deep enough, and since it is their own sight, they had the right tool to counterbore it to the correct depth.

I have no complaints whatsoever with Williams Gunsight - their service thus far has been exemplary.

Anyway, that fixed the problem with the rear sight, but that seems to just be the start of the problem.

On the 4th I attempted once again to sight it in at approximately 25 yards. I was running out of light and thus I had to stop before getting it right on, but when I stopped the rear sight was just a few notches from the lowest position.

I have trouble getting a sight picture with the rear sight that low, even with the lowest cheek piece on the stock. The front sight is also almost entirely obscured by the picatinny rail in this position.

I haven't taken the rear sight all the way back to the lowest setting yet, but I'm confident now that the front sight is too low.

Since I bought it used, warranty isn't an option for me. I'm still very interested to see how Savage addresses the problem. If there is a revised or corrected front sight from them, I would definitely want it. If not, brazing a bead on doesn't sound like a bad idea.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the sight problems are why the original owner sold the gun. It doesn't have any signs/marks of a sight being mounted previously.

[doowroh]

I'm glad to find out that I'm not the only one with this problem....

Blackbeard,

I’d like to PM you, but I think you need a minimum number of posts first. I’m trying to gather as many serial numbers as I can, so if you can somehow get me your serial number, I’d appreciate it greatly (PM or post, your call). I’m also trying to get a hold of the OP, but it seems that he hasn’t posted other than in this post.



I have trouble getting a sight picture with the rear sight that low

As for your troubles with the sight picture, does your Scout rail have a scallop/groove down the length of it?? I’ve seen some of the older models are pretty much a standard rail, but mine has a groove that runs down the length of it to give a little more relief with the sight picture.


....I'm confident now that the front sight is too low...

I’m going to be in touch with Savage (Canada) in a few days. I’ll report back with what’s happening.