Lee Collet Die

[Tozguy]

[quote=bigedp51 ]
And if you look at your necks after using the Lee Collet die you will have longitudinal lines up and down the neck from the slots in the collet leaving this area of the neck untouched. A standard neck sizing die leaves the neck more uniform, push come to shove I would rather use a simple Lee Loader than create these sectional crimps on the neck.

If this die was so great then why don't you see bench rest shooters using these cheaply made dies.

As a matter of fact some bench rest shooters do use collett dies. Investigation showed that ribs on the neck give some of the same benefits of alignment with the bore as do tight chambers with turned necks but without the worry of keeping such tight tolerances. Lee collett dies may be inexpensive but they are not cheap. There is absolutely no evidence that standard neck sizing dies as a class automatically provide more uniform necks than the Lee collett die. Not to say that all standard standard dies are created equal by any means.

[bigedp51]

Big Ed, I've picked up some great info from you. And it's well appreciated! But, I'll have to differ with you on this one. The 25# press handle pressure that Lee recommends just isn't right, period. I use the Lee collet to set neck tension (among other things) when tweaking loads for optimum performance. Start w/ a fired case. Measure nk. dia. then measure nk. diameter on the same type case w/ bullet seated. Determine how much "squeeze" you'd like on the fired case neck. Run the collet die into press until bottom of collet touches shell holder. Insert case, activate arm 'til it just bumps the "stop", check nk. dia. Continue making small adjustments until you reach desired amount of "squeeze". I try for .002" smaller than bullet seated dia. or .002" squeeze. re- insert case into die and tighten lock ring. You're good to go! On my dies I can get from .001" to .003" squeeze without having to "polish" the mandrel. ------ Once fired brass will exhibit perfect outside neck dia. New brass, not quite so perfect. Just activate the press arm 'til it "bumps" the stop!!!! With this method you are allowing the collet to determine neck dia. NOT the mandrel!!! No need to have a bionic arm! Using this method the brass will tell you when it needs annealing also. Hope this works for you ;D PM me if you'd like. Dale



My only collet die is for the .303 British, I have Winchester, Remington, Prvi Partizan and Greek HXP .303 cases I reload for. Why would I want four different case set ups when a standard RCBS neck die requires no adjustments and no tinkering around.

I see nothing wrong with my .303 hand loads. ;)

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/range-day-2-1.jpg

Now do a search at 6mmbr.com below and see how many bench rest shooters use a Lee Collet die when loading for accuracy

http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

The .303 cases below have been neck turned and sized in a neck sizing die with the decapping rod and ball expander removed. We are not even talking apples and oranges when it comes to neck run out and bullet neck tension when comparing this to a "collet" die.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7127.jpg

[gotcha]

And if you look at your necks after using the Lee Collet die you will have longitudinal lines up and down the neck from the slots in the collet leaving this area of the neck untouched. bigedp51, The point I'm making is that you won't have indentations on the neck If you try my suggestion. You can even remove the decapping stem/mandrel from the the Lee die and size the necks if you like. You also get the benefit of "adjustable" neck tension within the .001" to .003" range I mentioned without having to upgrade to a$140.00 Redding interchangeable collet neck die. If you are turning necks you'll have a thinner neck wall and even more flexability in neck tension settings. Your case neck will be smooth and uniform in dia.(once fired brass). I'm not really overly concerned with what bench resters do. If I hung a pink coon tail from my trigger guard and won a bench rest match. Half the shooters would have a pink coon tail on their trigger guard at the next match. ;D Been there, done that! Yes, the Lee die is inexpensive but, used and adjusted properly it is a rather ingenious tool! Try my suggestion--------------You'll like it!

[bigedp51]

gotcha

The Lee Collet die is a cheep roughly made resizing die and mine is back in my storage area gathering dust as it was before this posting. A standard RCBS die will straighten new brass better before fire forming and align the cases better. If you like the collet die fine, in my opinion it was a waste of money, I even ordered a new mandrel and collet thinking these parts were defective. As I stated I'm not in the least impressed with the Lee collet die or its roughly made parts.

Again gotcha, sorry but to each his own and thanks for your input.

[DGD6MM]

You know what they say about opinions. ::) And yes to each his own.

[Tozguy]

Getting back to the original question, possum, do you neck turn before sizing with the collett die?
The collett die works best with unturned brass (.012-.013 wall). If the wall is turned down to say .008'' then the collett has to close tighter than it is designed to and the collett will tend to dig into the neck.
If you get curious about this, remove the collett from the die and slip it over a case neck so you can see how closely the collett fits the neck. If there is too much clearance or is too tight then it might be the cause of the marks showing up as you mentionned.
My 223 necks are .255 fired and the collett openning at rest is .262''. I only use just enough pressure to size the neck back to .249''. There are no unusual marks left on the necks.

[possum1]

H*ll I had to go back and read the original question, funny how threads get off subject ::) No I do not neck turn. I found what was causing the indention, somewhere along the way I had damaged the collets, or one of my boy's had messed with my press " very doubtful as I whoop @ss occasionally " and damaged the die collets. I removed the burrs that were causing the damage to the cases. All is well now in the Johnson's house ;D edit Sometime in the future I will purchase one of those high dollar neck dies and do the comparison for myself, as for now I do not have an opinion on which is better. The one thing I am sure of, where I point the muzzle or cross-hairs, that's where the bullet ends up ;)

[bigedp51]

After hearing so many positive comments I decided to give my problematic Lee Collet a "close up" look, I have chronological gifted eyesight so I enlisted the help of a set of visor magnifiers.

The problem was a bad collet that looked to be only partially finished and the inside of the collet was not smooth around the slots. The inside of the collet was not as bad as the outside "BUT" it appeared to have missed the final finish smoothing and still had burs at the edge of the slots.

I was unable to get an internal shot of the crimping area so I will just be able to show you the outside of the collet.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7132.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7137.jpg

I had ordered a smaller mandrel and a new collet to go with the mandrel and unfortunately my chronological gifted eyesight and bifocals missed the new collet defects. I removed the defective collet and replace it with the original collet and after cleaning and inspecting I found no internal burs. After a light polishing and lubing the Lee Collet die no longer eats and mangles my case necks. It does not leave the necks as smooth as a standard die but the marks are just barely visible to the naked eye. (or bifocals)

In my next loading session I will give them a full workout and tests at the range. (Bifocals permitting) ::)

[possum1]

If my Lee dies had looked like that I too would be giving them the bad-mouth. There is no excuse for a product to get out the door looking like that.

[bigedp51]

The collet pictured did NOT come with the original Lee collet die, it was a replacement item I ordered that I failed to check properly and installed. The original collet was smooth and finished so I will take half the blame.

[gotcha]

bigedp51, Now I understand where the bad taste in your mouth came from. :D Looks like the QC guy @ Lee is in dire need of a visit to his Optometrist coupled with a drug test. Cause he's either blind or stoned. Later, Dale

[possum1]

WHOOOOOA !!!!!!!! Now I agree with the eye doctor, but I definately FROWN on the drug testing. Has something to do with the privacy act, in my opinion. Or maybe because it cost me too many job's back in the day when I could work. I alway's hit the target better when I'm stoned ::)

[Tozguy]

Biged, looking forward to hearing more about the outcome. Its a shame that you got a bad piece and I know how it can sour you about a manufacturer. Its happening to me with Sinclair but it sounds like you are getting much better service from Lee than I am from S.

[possum1]

[i][/iservice from Lee ] Not saying this because I've had problem's with the Lee product's but you can't beat thier CS.

[DGD6MM]

Biged, I see where the bad taste comes from. When I viewed the pictures yesterday I thought that sure is ugly. Your post are very informative, and so are the others. Thanks.

[Predator1]

Just to the doubters, I know there are good neck sizers other than the collet die. But the collet die is a very good die. I remember Jim Calhoun doing a test on neck dies and the collet die was producing ammo with the least amount of runout. All testing was done using bench rest style seaters like the Forrester and Redding. You know, sometimes a company comes up with an idea that maybe some of other companys should have cuz for the price this is a steal.

[DGD6MM]

I use them all the time. I've shot tight groups at 600-1000 yards with them. 1/4 - 1/2 moa.

[bigedp51]

I want to thank gotcha for hammering on me and re-sparking my interest in the Lee Collet die, I kept going back and reading his post about die setup and said to myself I have to inspect this collet die over again and see what is really wrong with it.

I worked over 25 years in Quality Control as an Inspector and I remembered one of the first things we were taught.

"97% of all errors are human errors and only 3% are actually mechanical failures"

The problem with my Lee Collet Die was human error times two, the collet's defects were missed at the factory and then missed by me after it was shipped to me.

Actually it is human error times three, I also did a search at http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html and found many pages of reloading information on the Lee Collet Die at a bench rest shooting website.

So problem solved, and you can teach an old dog new tricks. ;D
(if he listens to other people and uses a magnifying glass to see with)

Below, after cleaning, inspecting, replacing the "new" defective collet, and polishing the crimping area , a .303 British case with only the faintest of marks on the neck.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP7151.jpg

Click on the links below for collet die setup, lubrication and one hole groups. ;)

http://www.6mmbr.com/BlogJan2007.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek075.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/260AIforming.html

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek075.html

[dolomite_supafly]

Glad you decided to give it another chance. Even if you do go back to your previous setup at least you gave the Lee stuff a chance. All I use any more is a Lee collet die and a Redding body die. I am very pleased with my results. My reloads are very consistent.

Dolomite

[possum1]

::) :o ::) :o ::) ::) :o ;D