My 284 Win experiment failed, I need a new Savage long action

[Onewolf]

Several years ago I wanted to try a 7mm caliber in a short action and I decided to see if I could get a 284 Win to work. I built a rifle with a McGowen 284 Win barrel and a Savage Target Repeater action. I have been using 162 A-Max bullets set to max magazine length (2.95"-2.97") but the rounds don't feed reliably (at all) in my 8 round DBMs and I would also like to try some 180 grain bullets (Hornady ELD-M Match) which will require a much longer COAL.

In an ideal world, there would be a Savage long action that would work with my existing 284 win McGowen barrel (threaded for Savage (large) target action from LRP). No chance of that, right?

Assuming I need to find a donor rifle for a long action with DBM, which action/rifles should I be looking for? I think I would prefer an action with top bolt release since most after-market stocks/chassis seem assume top bolt release.

Thanks.

[Robinhood]

People have turned down large tenon barrels to fit small tenon actions. They have also cut small tenon actions to large tenon. There were some large tenon LA's made for things like RUM's. I think but I'm not sure about the Stealth win mags and Lapuas LA's but I thought they were large tenon also. Did they make a LA LRP?

[Onewolf]

People have turned down large tenon barrels to fit small tenon actions. They have also cut small tenon actions to large tenon. There were some large tenon LA's made for things like RUM's. I think but I'm not sure about the Stealth win mags and Lapuas LA's but I thought they were large tenon also. Did they make a LA LRP?

I'm pretty sure the LRP has been SA only for as long as I have been involved in the sport.

Can a barrel made for the Savage target action be used on a Savage "large shank" action ?

Thanks.

[Robinhood]

Yes. The nut used by savage is shorter.

Your cheapest route might be to have a smith bore and thread a cheap long action. The action can be blueprinted at that time.

[Cmgoff]

I agree with Robinhood. I have done this to a couple actions now and I find it is the best treatment to the action you can do. So long as the Smith has a good fixture, and a good way to indicate off the bolt race, you end up with a very square action and the benefit of a larger barrel tennon.

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[geargrinder]

The Bear Hunter and Brush Hunter are current models that are long action large shank.

Turning a small shank action is not a good idea. It would be better to turn your barrel down to a small shank instead.

[Onewolf]

The Bear Hunter and Brush Hunter are current models that are long action large shank.

Turning a small shank action is not a good idea. It would be better to turn your barrel down to a small shank instead.

Thanks. It looks like the 110 Brush Hunter is very close to what I am looking for. It's LA, center feed, DBM, large shank. The only possible issue is that it has the bottom bolt release. I will check to see what sort of stocks/chassis are designed to work with the bottom bolt release.

[Onewolf]

I plan to use CDI bottom metal and 300 Win Mag magazines in a Choate Tactical LA stock. Will 284 Win rounds feed ok in a 300 Win Mag magazine?

Question: Which shank does the current 116 Alaskan Brush (338 Win Mag or 375 Ruger) use? Buds has them for $430 versus $636 for the 110 Brush Hunter. It would be nice to save $200 if the Alaskan Brush 338 Win Mag has a large shank.

Question: The 116 Alaskan Brush has a blind magazine (center feed) which based upon my research indicates there should be no problem using that action with the CDI bottom metal, correct?

I assume I would need to replace the (338 win mag) magnum bolt face with a standard (.473) bolt face for 284 Win. Are there any other repercussions of using the LA Magnum action?

Thanks for all the advice.

[geargrinder]

338 Win Mag is a small shank. Only the 375's are on large shanks.

Just a straight bolt head swap with the long actions.

[Onewolf]

338 Win Mag is a small shank. Only the 375's are on large shanks.

Thanks for all the info....

Why do you suppose the 338 Win Mag uses a small shank but the 375 Ruger uses a large shank when the cartridges have virtually identical dimensions?

338 Win Mag

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/338WinMag01.png

375 Ruger

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/SAAMI375Ruger002.png/500px-SAAMI375Ruger002.png

[geargrinder]

The difference is at the fattest part of the case body. Win mag is 0.513". The Ruger is 0.532". I guess it made enough difference to the engineers at Savage.

There's been plenty of RUMS and WSM's built on small shanks to show that in reality, there is no issue. RUM/WSM case body is 0.555"

I guess the up side is that it made Savage start producing a long action large shank again.

[Cmgoff]

I have a 284 throated long for 180 Berger's and I tested both 300 win mag ai mag and a 30-06 ai mag from accurate mag. Both options needed lip adjustment but the 30-06 was closer and what I chose to go with.

To address the discussion about why large shank on the Ruger case and not the win mag.... I would theorize the diameter is not the main contributer to the decision, but rather the combination of the shallow body taper and the large(ish) body diameter. Cases with shallower case tapers are more prone to sticking in the chamber preventing extraction. Also, when your case diameter is large your tennon thickness is obviously thinner. The thinner tennon reduces the radial spring rate of the chamber. This all means that when the powder goes boom the chamber can swell elastically further than it would if a smaller case of equal max pressure was fired. When this happens, the case also expands, but plastically because the brass has a lower yield strength than the steel barrel.

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is also one of the reasons i prefer to increase my actions to large shank rather than turning down the barrel. As a reloader with shallow body tapered cases I can run higher pressures. Also when opening the threads I also square the action face and lugs.

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[geargrinder]

Not to beat a dead horse, but this is also one of the reasons i prefer to increase my actions to large shank rather than turning down the barrel. As a reloader with shallow body tapered cases I can run higher pressures. Also when opening the threads I also square the action face and lugs.

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So, to continue beating a dead horse. Considering the tennon area as a unit, you are removing heat treated material from the action and adding untreated/normalized material to the barrel.

The only place you are gaining strength is in the barrel in the portion beyond the action.

I'll keep running my RUM's and WSM's on small shanks.

[Cmgoff]

You are correct that the action is heat treated and therefore has a higher yield strength than the barrel. Heat treating only changes the yield strength of the material and it does not affect it's stiffness because the modulus does not change. Also, most of the chamber is cut in front of the action face so any reinforcement that the action could provide is not happening. I would also prefer to react the radial forces during combustion in a homogenous material rather than having a load path through the threads. My above recommendation is to increase stiffness to decrease the chance of a stuck case, no amount of heat treat can do that.

This will be my last post regarding this topic as I do not want to hijack this post any further. I do enjoy this topic of debate, and if more people are interested in chiming in we should open a separate post.

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