Trying to bed a Model 10

[Inky Doc]

I’m trying to bed a Model 10, .243 Win., 2nd Gen, ser#G415XXX, stagger-fed, that I bought new in 2005. This is my first attempt at bedding any weapon and I had intended to pillar and then glass bed. I came across some place saying it comes already pillar bedded from the factory, there were pics that to my untrained eye looked just like the innards of my rifle. Can anyone shed some light on this please?

Also, is there a kit that someone would recommend for my Savage? I’ve seen plenty of info on general bedding but nothing specific for this particular Savage. Thank you for your time and patience.


https://i.postimg.cc/rpTFtPwH/46097156-_EDF2-499_F-_A3_D0-_A0489_F8316_D8.jpg (https://postimg.cc/DSCK95sQ)
https://i.postimg.cc/YCYC0HMg/8_EBEEDC7-9_DD1-4_AB9-9_C31-_C979_ECDEA257.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Js7LYSy4)

[joeb33050]

I've got a M10 and M12. and can see NO reason for bedding. If the barrel is free floating and the tang doesn't touch the stock, the guns with a dozen different barrels shoot < 1" 5-shot 5 group averages all day. I've never read a report where bedding a Savage in a pillar bedded plastic stock made an accuracy difference. 9/24/18 the Striker averaged .650" 5-shot 5 groups 100 yards.
joe b.

[sharpshooter]

Don't waste your time bedding a tupperware stock. They don't have a bedding problem, they have a flimsy problem.

[DesertDug]

Looks like it has pillars already.

[squirrelsniper]

The biggest problem with bedding one of the "Tupperware" stocks is getting the bedding to adhere to it. You can drill holes, divots, and grooves at odd angles and create a mechanical lock for the bedding, but that's generally not the best idea for a first bedding job. Besides that, even when you're done, you still have a flimsy forearm. It does appear to already have pillars, so unless you just want to do it for practice, I don't think you'll get the long-term results you're looking for.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Only thing to be concerned with is "flex" in the forearm. Tupperwear stocks are known for that. Other than that, no worries.

[Inky Doc]

Thank you all gentlemen for your input. However, I very much want to practice bedding this stock. Because if I eff it up then I just learned what not to do and I’m not out any money. I have had a hard time finding an aftermarket stock for this gun too.

[Inky Doc]

Also, to what ft.#s should the action screws be tightened?

[joeb33050]

Don't waste your time bedding a tupperware stock. They don't have a bedding problem, they have a flimsy problem.

I've read, here, about flimsy plastic stocks and suggested fixes. I've rasped out my stocks until six dollar bills don't snag, and no problems yet. And, the front bag is generally under the barrel nut. ????

[DesertDug]

We. Reading about rockset or something. Concrete. But lots seem to say what joeb said. I have a tuberware I just got and am tring to figure out what to do with it. Just finished a build and first bedding job . Was wood so not sure about the plastic But I like your approach, what's there to loose

http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?61854-110e-270-build-help

[tobnpr]

When bedding polymer stocks you need to degrease thoroughly to remove any factory mold-release compounds (I use Brownell's TCE, but you can use acetone or brake cleaner carefully after you're sure it won't eat the plastic). Most composite stocks are solvent-resistant-they need to be to withstand gun cleaning solvents.

Then as mentioned above, you need a good mechanical bond as most epoxies will only get a so-so chemical bond with polymers. Drill a bunch of reverse holes/divots, and with a carbide burr or sanding drum on your rotary tool, rough-up all surfaces. Beyond that, it's all the same as bedding a wood or composite stock.

Plenty of good info online, here's a couple of articles:
https://rifleshooter.com/2014/09/rifle-bedding-how-to-bed-a-match-rifle/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/stress-free-pillar-bedding/

I prefer the "stress-free" method of using surgical tubing the length of the action instead of using screws, as these can introduce point-loads on the receiver IMO.
Make sure you're relieved enough plastic to get adequate depth of bedding compound where you want it, use clay/putty to make sure it stays out of where you don't want it...and plenty of release agent (I use a mold release spray or simple carnauba wax, kiwi neutral color shoe polish is fine, too).

Brownell's sells kits with Acraglass which would be fine for you, pricey compared to buying stuff in bulk- but since you're only doing one rifle it would be the way to go.

Make sure you have no "reverse angles" where epoxy can go and lock the receiver into the stock. Good luck.

[mnbogboy2]

The "flimsyness" is not only in the forearm. Under recoil the whole stock bends some. Heavier recoiling rifles often end up with the "bent" recoil lugs.
Your .243 may be ok with the .188" lug. But I would change to a thicker lug if I was using a tupperware stock.
IMHO

[sharpshooter]

The "tupperware" stocks are made for polypropylene (PP) a relatively soft plastic. Milk jugs are made from high density polyethylene (HDPE), which is actually a stronger and stiffer plastic. In comparison, the PP is soft enough that it will actually conform and deform to what ever it is attached to. When you draw up action screws, the plastic will wrap itself around the barreled action because it does not have enough rigidity to resist the pressure. The bedding area will conform to the receiver, so the problem is NOT there. Adding bedding material to that area does nothing. Because of the lack of tensile strength in the material and the huge voids in the mold to reduce material, the entire stock lacks rigidity from end to end.
Does this have an effect on accuracy? Technically no...not on the rifle, but it does have an effect on the accuracy of the shooter. When shot from a mechanical machine rest ( rifle clamped in and remotely fired) the results are the same as a wood or composite stock. When fired by a shooter over bags and a front rest, the results are night and day.
Shooting off hand is entirely different. The tests I ran several years ago, indicated that a wood stock shot slightly better off hand, but it was concluded that the results were attributed to the extra weight of the wood stock, and not necessarily the rigidity.

"Practicing" your bedding skills on a plastic stock is like practicing your "backing" skills with a semi truck with no trailer attached. The only thing you will learn is that it was a waste of time.

[mnbogboy2]

^this

[tobnpr]

The "tupperware" stocks are made for polypropylene (PP) a relatively soft plastic. Milk jugs are made from high density polyethylene (HDPE), which is actually a stronger and stiffer plastic. In comparison, the PP is soft enough that it will actually conform and deform to what ever it is attached to. When you draw up action screws, the plastic will wrap itself around the barreled action because it does not have enough rigidity to resist the pressure. The bedding area will conform to the receiver, so the problem is NOT there. Adding bedding material to that area does nothing. Because of the lack of tensile strength in the material and the huge voids in the mold to reduce material, the entire stock lacks rigidity from end to end.
Does this have an effect on accuracy? Technically no...not on the rifle, but it does have an effect on the accuracy of the shooter. When shot from a mechanical machine rest ( rifle clamped in and remotely fired) the results are the same as a wood or composite stock. When fired by a shooter over bags and a front rest, the results are night and day.
Shooting off hand is entirely different. The tests I ran several years ago, indicated that a wood stock shot slightly better off hand, but it was concluded that the results were attributed to the extra weight of the wood stock, and not necessarily the rigidity.

"Practicing" your bedding skills on a plastic stock is like practicing your "backing" skills with a semi truck with no trailer attached. The only thing you will learn is that it was a waste of time.


I've bedded dozens of polymer stocks. "Plastic" is a generic, meaningless term like "metal". Proper bedding compounds don't shrink, and don't flex. If an adequate mechanical and chemical bond is achieved, the receiver isn't capable of knowing if the material under the bedding is wood, fiberglass, aluminum, or "plastic".

The purpose of bedding is to prevent movement of the action in the stock. So, technically, it does affect the rifle's accuracy, and has nothing to do with the shooter's ability, other than to frustrate because harmonics are constantly in flux because of an improper fit of the receiver to the stock.

[DesertDug]

Tobnpr, what I think sharpshooter is saying the PP plastic forms to the action due to its softness and acts like a good bedding job.

Can some one chime in on why chassiss do not need bedding, assuming every action is slightly different.

[RustyShackle]

I think that the elasticity of the given material used as a stock will largely be responsible for the “harmonics” and repeatability. The plastic deforms when under stress both from the action screws, and the force generated upon firing. Speaking of material properties two significant and differing would be “elastic and plastic” deformation. Under elastic deformation the object under stress returns to its former dimensions. Plastic deformation occurs when the material is deformed beyond the elastic limits and the dimensions are permanently altered. If the stock elasticly deforms it might not entirely return to exactly it’s former position relative to the receiver. These changes plastic and elastic deformation change the torque exerted upon given interfaces between the receiver and stock. This causes a shift in poi. It doesn’t help that a user can exert forces upon the material greater than its yield strength, further straining the force being exerted on the receiver changing its static condition.

That said, pillars and bedding modify these property characteristics and will (generally) improve the repeatability between the two objects. Partly in the dispersion of forces along a given area.

The forearm could likey be helped with a bit of work and some carbon arrow shafts inserted parallel with the bbl.

Chassis are generally made from a very non-yielding material. Hence no need for bedding.

[bsekf]

Go for it! Looks to me as if the front pillar isn't touching the barrel. Remove some material so that the pillar is touching the action. Do some searching on this site for bedding. You only bed the area from the recoil lug to the back screw, leave the tang unbedded. A 3x5 card should slide down the barrel channel to the lug and around the tang. Since this is a learning experience, use JB Weld epoxy. Use kiwi shoe polish for a release agent or grease. Before applying epoxy clean the stock with denatured alcohol. I have a bedded tupperware stock on one of my 308's, it shoots MOA.

Bill

[Robinhood]

The most accurate rifle for three shots @ 100 in the stable is a bedded Stevens 200 stock with a Shaw 7mm08 barrel. One round hole.

[RustyShackle]

The most accurate rifle for three shots @ 100 in the stable is a bedded Stevens 200 stock with a Shaw 7mm08 barrel. One round hole.

My Shaw bbl in 7mm-08 shoots lights out too! It’s JB bedded in a Boyd’s laminate.