Need help finding a solution to fix my constantly loose rail.

[Kauzenkaos]

I've had my 110ba stealth in 338lm for about a year and a half. 10 shots out of the box the rail was loose. Took it apart and found the screw holes and screws covered in oil instead of loctite. Cleaned and loctite screws. Made another 30 or 40 shots rail loose again. At this point I contacted savage they directed me to the rail manufacturer. They sent me a new rail and multiple sets of screws. Unfortunately the rail was for the previous model 110ba. But I was able to custom cut the screws they sent to length and loctite them in. Shot it another 30 or 40 rds loose again. Decided I was done messing with it and used bearing mount (more permanent type of loctite)on the screws and really cranked them down. Got maybe 100 shots out of it and loose again. This is the closest I have ever came to throwing my rifle down range.
I have been reading about bedding my rail. I can see the the advantages of having the two pieces fit perfectly together. I was considering going the shoe polish jb weld route for the bedding process but I have never done it before. What do those that have done it recommend? Am I wasting my time? Is there a better fix? At this point I'm ready to make one last attempt at correcting this issue if it comes loose again down the road it goes.
My scope and mount are pretty heavy. But I would think they would expect you to put big glass and an adjustable mount on a rifle that is meant to shoot long range.
Any help or advice would be appreciated. I want to mount this thing 1 last time and forget about it.

[hafejd30]

Is the rail aluminum or steel? Aluminum can be a bit softer. Which could cause flexing and wearing that allows some slop in the rail. I run a Ken Farrel base on mine and never had it loosen. On a 338 LM 110 BA. Also a base with a recoil lug may help

[Robinhood]

You can Use JB Weld to bed, clean the edges with a plastic scraper or other tools while it dries. There is probably a YouTube video for it.

[steve101610]

Get a steel rail and torque the screw down to what the tail manufacturer says. Over tightening is not a good thing.


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[bearcatrp]

I have the savage 110 FCP in 338. I had that issue until I used blue loctite. Haven’t come loose in over 100 rounds. There is a red loctite that’s better. Then there is rocksett. You sure those thread holes are correct size?

[Kauzenkaos]

It's an aluminium rail. They sent me a rail with a recoil lug but my rifle doesn't have a spot for the lug to drop into. Contacted savage today and they are going to send me a new rail. Wasnt able to get any info about the issue just that it should fix my problem.

[geezerhood]

Cleaned and loctite screws.

I am assuming you thoroughly cleaned / degreased the threaded holes as well as the screws? Which type of Loctite did you use the first time?

[Kauzenkaos]

I am assuming you thoroughly cleaned / degreased the threaded holes as well as the screws? Which type of Loctite did you use the first time?

I own a transmission/ automotive repair shop so I am no stranger to loctite. Anyway I used red high strength permatex brand. The second time I used permatex 64000 bearing mount and sleeve retainer. This stuff normally requires 400 degrees to break its bond. I was suprised that the rail was loose after that. As far as cleaning I used brake clean and a blow tip to clean and dry holes and screws

[hafejd30]

There got to be a thread size issue or something of the sort.
maybe it’s jumping threads under recoil. Using what you currently tried should hold a zero on a 50 no problem, let alone a 338. I would try a Ken farrel base. I love mine. Throw the aluminum crap that they give you in the trash. My .02

[Stumpkiller]

Shorten your screws or deepen the receiver holes. They could be bottoming out.

One of my best investments was a Brownell's Screw Holder Gizzie for this very reason.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/polishing-tools-accessories/polishing-wheels/screw-holder-gizzie--prod599.aspx

[hafejd30]

On the other hand if your receiver holes are what is the problem then that’s another issue other than what base your using

[hafejd30]

Shorten your screws or deepen the receiver holes. They could be bottoming out.

Those actions should prevent the bolt from closing before bottoming out the 3 screw closest to the shooter, no?

[Kauzenkaos]

I custom fit all the screws for their hole depth and maximum screw engagement. And yes one of the holes passes all the way through so if it wasnt cut to the perfect length it would cause problems. I can crank the shit out of those screws and they wont strip. I also ran a bottom tap in them to make sure they were threaded all the way to the bottom of the hole.
I will add that with my vortex razor scope and the Ivey mount there is a considerable amount of weight atop that rail.
I am looking at the steel mounts now. Trying to find the best solution. That's why I inquired about bedding i wanted to make the fit between the 2 perfect. Just didnt know if that would help or if anyone here had tried it.

[sharpshooter]

I wouldn't bother bedding it... I'd pin it.

[geezerhood]

As others have said, I would also suggest replacing the aluminum base with one made of steel. I was quite surprised that Savage ships them with aluminum bases. I bought two used Savage 338 Lapuas, both had aluminum rails on them. I replaced them with steel, based on the problems I have had in the past with aluminum picatinny rails on heavy kickers. One of the original rails had some serious deformation of the top front corners where the cross bolts from the rings were making contact. I didn't mic it but the rings had moved almost 1/10th of an inch forward past the slot and likely would have continued to do so had I not replaced the base. I don't recall the brand / model of rings that the previous owner had on there, but they did have shallow recoil lugs on them which contributed to the problem. Rings with round cross bolts are usually the worst at mashing their way forward under recoil. I also avoid steel bases for heavy kickers that have a huge cutout down the middle of the top of the rail, essentially decreasing their resistance to damage from forward movement by 1/3. I know they do that to make them lighter, but in my view it should not be done. I stick with solid topped, steel picatinny rails only unless I am building a lightweight lower recoiling rifle.

[Kauzenkaos]

Definitely not building light weight. If I remember correctly the glass is over 3 lbs and the Ivey mount is over 1. I'll try a steel rail next. Sounds like an easy solution. Thanks for the info.

[celltech]

Just a thought...have you tried marking the screw heads with a paint pen or enamel paint to see if they are backing out while you are firing, or has the rail been getting torqued from the recoil?

[Kauzenkaos]

Just a thought...have you tried marking the screw heads with a paint pen or enamel paint to see if they are backing out while you are firing, or has the rail been getting torqued from the recoil?

To be honest I though I had this sorted out with the bearing mount loctite. My guess would be the aluminum giving way under shock and allowing the screws to then back out. I think alot has to do with the amount of rail that sticks out free floating above the barrel.

[Texas10]

Curious, is your receiver tapped for 6-48 or 8-40 screws and is the rail drilled for the proper screw?

Also, if the screws came loose after using Bearing Mount Loctite, were you able to simply back them out without applying heat?

Very strange that Loctite would not hold those screws! My guess would be the screws are actually stretching under the load and breaking the Loctite bond. You might have to go to an oversize thread, and possibly a higher grade screw if you can find one.

A shooting buddy has a 338LM with NightForce scope. He too used to have scope troubles we never identified the cause of, but seemed to go away after using red loctite. But then he doesn't shoot that often so maybe it's a problem waiting to surface again.

[Kauzenkaos]

It does have 8 40 screws. And I got replacement screws direct from the rail manufacturer so I can only assume they were the right ones.
That being said my ken Farrell rail showed today so I pulled the old one off to fine the front 2 screws loose and the rear 2 completely sheared off. I drilled and tried to extract the two broken screws. Neither would move without heat. The front two screws spun out with little effort but were both bent.
I installed the Ferrell rail and they actually take the time to counter bore each hole to the right depth so you dont have to grind on screws. I could instantly tell a difference when I tightened down the rail. Unlike the aluminum rail that came with the rifle the screws got tight instantly. The old aluminum rail would take 4 or 5 passes with a torque wrench they would finally stay torqued. I'll let you know how it all works out.