Ditch the barrel nut?

[freediver111]

Sounds like there are some advantages to the nut, but most arguments are centered around swapping barrels frequently, swapping calibers, or moving one barrel to multiple actions.

None of these apply to me, so I'll try nutless this go-around. If/when I burn this new barrel out, I may very well go ahead and try the DIY route with a new one with a nut. I'm all about accuracy/precision and don't care as much about looks. I'll probably test both ways just to see for myself, but it's going to take a bit to burn the new barrel so I'll have plenty of time.

[Steak n eggs]

The biggest advantage of having a barrel nut, is your ability to set headspace how you want it and to change it depending on circumstance... something that requires money every time if you don’t have it... in the end, Unless you’re a professional level shooter, I doubt you will see the difference in accuracy...

what I don’t understand is how tooling will cost the same amount as a gunsmith?... a set of go/no go gauges and a barrel wrench cost less than a hundred dollars...

btw... there’s a great thread over on snipershide where a guy tested/testing the difference... so far he has found no accuracy improvements with the shouldered barrel.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

IMHO, most the "shouldered barrels" look pretty good. Reminds me of my Remington XP 100 actioned rifle. Love it!!
As far as setting head space? I don't bother to use gauges or an action wrench anymore. 99.99% of my chamberings are Wildcat rounds and there's no gauges available anyway. All head spaces are set with full length sized brass AND set on the tight side. The barrel nut IS NOT tightened like a go rilla was working on it. Snug it good. Steel hammer on steel wrench gets the job done and I've NEVER had a barrel nut come loose. Each barrel and nut are marked and matched to the action mark. Action chucked in a padded vice, nut wrench smacked, barrel and nut spun off and the process is reversed. Head space is checked with formed brass. Barrel and bolt head if needed can be swapped in less than 15 minutes. No need for any of the above if you're working with a shouldered barrel and don't plan on changing calibers that often.

[LoneWolf]

I ran a barrel nut on a Mausingfield Action in competition for 3yrs. I finished in 8th out of almost 400 shooters overall last year in the South Eastern Region PRS Club Series. This year I picked up a new Gunsmith Sponsor and am running shouldered barrels for the first time. Accuracy wise I don't really notice any difference.

The biggest difference is the Gunsmiths ability to time the curvature of the bore to the 12 o'clock position when head-spacing the barrel. What does this do for the shooter?

(1) you get a few Mils of elevation back in the turret when zeroing

(2) You end up almost perfectly at the mechanical zero on windage meaning you won't need 2-3 mils left or right when zeroing like you sometimes need when running a barrel nut that the bore is not timed.

I have had my barrels shoulder by the same smith and not need to adjust my scope more than a few tenths of a mil when zeroing a new barrel. This is probably the biggest benefit. Does it increase performance? Not really, but it gives you a little more flexibility if your scope has limited travel. Overall it looks better....

[freediver111]

So the Smith is charging me $650. That includes new Benchmark barrel, Cerakote the action to match stainless, new recoil lug, and any machining work associated with it all. He mentioned doing some other work as well, but I'm meeting with him in a few weeks to go over his proposal.

Doing it myself costs from what I gather:

$350 for a new barrel in stainless with the contour I want.
$100 for a go and no-go set of gauges for 6.5 Creed.
$30 for a new recoil lug
$25 for a new stainless barrel nut
$40 for a barrel nut wrench

Total DIY: $545. Also note that the prices don't reflect shipping charges I'm sure would add to the cost for these items purchased online.

I'm also pretty sure I could shop around a bit and potentially find some of it cheaper.

So $550 DIY vs $650 smith. Cheaper to do DIY and less wait time, but then I'd pay to have someone Cerakote the action alone so that adds costs. In the end it comes out to pretty even, except I would have the gauges and barrel wrench forever.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

"So $550 DIY vs $650 smith". You forgot the cost of the action wrench. Another $100.00? If you do the barrel swap thing enough, you may choose NOT to use the action wrench. Depends on how confident you are at what you're doing.
Then, there's the wait time involved with your smith. Doesn't feel like working that day? Things arn't going as smooth as he would like? If you're doing a FTF transaction, you're OK. If you ever ship anything to get worked on, you better hope it gets there. Lots of stories about lost gear or empty boxes showing or damaged goods.
I'am lucky enough to have found a good man to do my chambering work. I've lost count on how many barrels he's chambered for me.
I send him MY blank and MY custom cut reamer, he'll chamber the barrel and have it back to me in about a week or so, unless it hunting season, then it takes a bit longer.;)
And when you finally get done spending all your hard earned $$, you've still got BIG $$ invested in a Savage. And you better hope it shoots as good as you hoped for.
One thing to remember, you're only going around one time (unless you're Shirley MacLane) and you can't take those $$ with you unless you change them into Travelers Checks. Spend those $$ and enjoy the ride. :cool:

[freediver111]

"So $550 DIY vs $650 smith". You forgot the cost of the action wrench. Another $100.00? If you do the barrel swap thing enough, you may choose NOT to use the action wrench. Depends on how confident you are at what you're doing.
Then, there's the wait time involved with your smith. Doesn't feel like working that day? Things arn't going as smooth as he would like? If you're doing a FTF transaction, you're OK. If you ever ship anything to get worked on, you better hope it gets there. Lots of stories about lost gear or empty boxes showing or damaged goods.
I'am lucky enough to have found a good man to do my chambering work. I've lost count on how many barrels he's chambered for me.
I send him MY blank and MY custom cut reamer, he'll chamber the barrel and have it back to me in about a week or so, unless it hunting season, then it takes a bit longer.;)
And when you finally get done spending all your hard earned $$, you've still got BIG $$ invested in a Savage. And you better hope it shoots as good as you hoped for.
One thing to remember, you're only going around one time (unless you're Shirley MacLane) and you can't take those $$ with you unless you change them into Travelers Checks. Spend those $$ and enjoy the ride. :cool:

I think you touched on my biggest concern. Is it smart to dump a bunch of money on a Savage action?
Well, I think why not? Remington blueprinted actions aren’t exactly cheap, and I’m not very impressed with Remington’s overall.
Custom actions cost upwards of $1,000 so pass on that.

My only other option that I considered was buying a Tikka CTR 24” barrel rifle. Cost is $1100. Now you get a nice action, possibly good barrel, and cheap stock.

With the Savage, I happened to have found an XLR Element for Savage in like new shape for a good price. That ultimately swayed my decision. I wanted a chassis down the road, so I decided to go for it.

While the Savage actions aren’t as amazing as some, I don’t mind them one bit. I’ve been very happy with mine, and would even say that when I shoot my Winchester M70 I’m not overwhelmed compared to my Savage. But I’m not overly picky when it comes to actions. It shoots, it extracts, and I like the accutrigger.

In the end, I also like the option that I CAN do the barre work down the road if I choose. Nice option to have. Some guys spend over $1,000 on a Ruger PR. When I’m done it will be a little over $1G, but I’m my opinion I’ll have a nicer gun.

Tough choice though. Some good options out there, but I wanted to stay in the $1200 range. So when I’m done I’ll have a cerakoted action, nice barrel, chassis, and a gun that can ultimately be worked on as a DIY project if I choose.

Not too shabby in my book.


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[LoneWolf]

Freediver, What are you using this rifle for? Savage rifles are great entry level rifles. The Savage actions biggest draw back on a competitive level is reliability. Let me know what you intend to do or goals you have and I can provide a ton of advice from direct personal experience with the endeavor of going from running built up savages to a custom action.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Bottom line? If you prefer/like the Savage action to build on, it's your choice. Nothing like taking a low class Savage and coming out on top when it comes to competition.:cool: That's like taking a rear grip SP and beating the long range rifle guys at their own game.
My guess? This won't be your last and only Savage build. Go for it and keep us posted.

[LoneWolf]

Bottom line? If you prefer/like the Savage action to build on, it's your choice. Nothing like taking a low class Savage and coming out on top when it comes to competition.:cool: That's like taking a rear grip SP and beating the long range rifle guys at their own game.
My guess? This won't be your last and only Savage build. Go for it and keep us posted.

This was my train of thought until I was trying to fix crap with my Savage after every match because of feeding/ejection issues... Yes some people "never" have an issue, but those people to shoot nearly as many rounds or beat their gear up nearly as bad. I've seen everything go down in matches. Savages are the most common factor due to design, but they fill their intended bill very well for the average guy just starting out!

[tobnpr]

A lot more to accuracy than the action.
Plain old Stevens 200 actions, but set up uniquely for competition...sometimes it pays to think outside the box:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek075/

[freediver111]

Freediver, What are you using this rifle for? Savage rifles are great entry level rifles. The Savage actions biggest draw back on a competitive level is reliability. Let me know what you intend to do or goals you have and I can provide a ton of advice from direct personal experience with the endeavor of going from running built up savages to a custom action.

I do zero competitions. No PRS or anything that involves high rounds in short order. Purely long range practice at our local range with my buddies and hunting. That’s it.

I have about 300 rounds on this gun and no feeding or extraction issues. But I don’t run it like some of you do in competitions. Just a fair amount of range time to get good at long range, and hunting.


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[LoneWolf]

Then I would stick with the savage until you feel it doesn't meet your needs. Plenty accurate enough and if it does break it's not hard to find the parts. Great platform to learn on and work on as well. I would go barrel nut and shop for a quality prefit. I've had no issue shooting off the shelf barrels. Get a Wheeler action wrench and a savage nut wrench. Gauges should only cost about $60. You only need a go and no-go gauge. You do not need the field gauge. I like Forster gauges, but also use PTG depending on my timeline and availability. I also use a breaker bar, torque wrench, and bench mounted vice for my set up, but that's not all necessary as has been mentioned. Swapping barrels is not difficult at all! Plenty of demonstrations available on YouTube etc. and if you can't find one let me know and I'll send you something to get you going.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

If you only plan on using "factory loaded ammo", the gauges will do the job at setting head space. Not one of my Savage rigs will load factory loaded ammo. The bolt won't close. Head space is just too snug, BUT, my brass doesn't get moved that much when resizing and lasts a loooong time.
I have some BR brass with 25 to 30 + resizes on them and they're still going strong. No split necks and primer pockets still snug. I also don't run hot loads and THAT makes a big difference.

[gbflyer]

$650 Benchmark barrel on a Savage? Please send us some pictures of targets when you get it together.

[OLEJOE]

I love my Savages. I’m a tinkerer. I like the ability of the Savage and the nut to be able to put any barrel of any one of a vast number of chamberings and be able to do it with a few hand tools. The nut makes this possible. All of this works great for someone who likes to tinker. As has been said before you just about have to be to keep one up and running. If I was going to do away with the nut I would use a different action. I prefer the Howa action over the Savage for reliability and strength and smoothness. The comparable price doesn’t hurt either.

[psharon97]

Like LoneWolf said, Savage actions have their place. For most applications, the Savage action is just fine. I was surprised at one of the club bench rest matches, how many people use a Savage action for competition. Savage actions are great to get started on, and easy enough to work on.

That being said, for PRS competitions, the Savage action is not going to cut it. I've tried it, even a T&T action, and the field conditions proved too much for the action.

I've personally noticed no discernible difference in the accuracy or the precision of a rifle with a shouldered barrel or a nutted barrel. Simply put, they are two ways of attaching a barrel on an action. I prefer a barrel nut system, as I prefer to swap barrels and not have to send the action out to a smith.