Receiver threads drilled crooked

[celltech]

X-Cal got in touch with me first thing this morning and sent a fedex return label no questions asked. And my thoughts on where I see the issue: "The X-Cal barrel appears to have a major/minor diameters of 1.055/1.020 while the OEM Savage barrel is 1.050/1.030. But the X-Cal barrel has very sharp "V" shaped roots and crests while the Savage's are way more flat/rounded. I think this has led to a difference in the thread angle and causing the slop. But I am no machinist so hopefully your guys can square it away."

I will report back on what they say...

[JeepsAndGuns]

Just got a email and a call from them. They gave me a fedex label to send it back. he said they will take a look at it and make it right. I told them it is still at the gunsmiths and may take a little bit to get it back. Hopefully I can get the ball rolling quickly.

[celltech]

So they got my barrel back today and gave me a call. "Everything is cut to spec and is fine...". They said the major/minor measurements are 1.055/1.020 as they should be. I told them I don't disagree with that at all, just their threads are cut with sharp roots and crests. It's the customer service guy that I keep talking to and he does not seem to be very technical....wish I could talk to whomever is actually making them.

So help me out here guys, what do I tell them? Is there a spec/style for having flattened or rounded roots and crests? It almost like the thread angles don't match between the barrel and receiver. And they are just saying they have made hundreds of these, no other problems, blah, blah. Although I did mention I know another barrel is coming back for the same thing and he looked at the returns and went "oh yeah, there is another one".

[sharpshooter]

Major/minor diameter doesn't mean as much as the pitch diameter. If the thread form is wrong, such as the root having a flat instead of a sharp "V", the pitch diameter will be small, while the root diameter can be spot on. Technically, the thread is 1.062" x 20 tpi. and uses the same pitch diameter. Only the crests are knocked down to 1.055", basically to aid in assembly.

[culpeper]

Why did it take so long to get the barrel in the first place? Their lead time is currently about 4.5 months with cryogenic and nitride. 10-12 weeks without them.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[celltech]

Thanks Fred... I bet they are basing everything on an absolute 1.055" major. I hope they have not made hundreds of barrels like this. I am curious, if the actual spec is a 1 1/16" OD, I wonder why most everything I read says 1.055". Not that your website says that or anything ;-)

[celltech]

Why did it take so long to get the barrel in the first place? Their lead time is currently about 4.5 months with cryogenic and nitride. 10-12 weeks without them.

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

Mine took less than a month to get, but it was not treated. Maybe they are setting low expectations and then trying to beat them...

[RustyShackle]

I’m pretty sure Shaw bbls are machined such that they have relatively sharp threads. I don’t have the tools to measure the threads, but this subject has piqued my interests.

[Robinhood]

Thanks Fred... I bet they are basing everything on an absolute 1.055" major. I hope they have not made hundreds of barrels like this. I am curious, if the actual spec is a 1 1/16" OD, I wonder why most everything I read says 1.055". Not that your website says that or anything ;-)

The Pitch Diameter is not affected by the major or minor diameter. The major and minor diameters will affect the percentage of thread engagement. A 1.0625 - 20 TPI thread will have X.xxx pitch diameter This diameter establishes a reference point to determine where the mating parts pitch diameter should be to maintain the proper thread engagement and the class fit between the threads.


If the pitch diameters are matched correctly you could remove .010 from the tops of the threads on both the male and female pieces and it would not affect the thread fit. It would affect the strength of the joint because of the reduction in engagement. If you removed .010 from the pitch diameter your Fit becomes extremely sloppy and when torqued it can shift off center. This is what happened to OP. This is also what could happen if someone trues the threads in your action and the person who makes the barrel is not aware and cuts them to fit an unmodified action. One reason people do not recut Savage action(or any other action) threads unless they are making a custom fit barrel or they only remove .001-.002".

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ojiyas.co.jp%2Fen%2Fimages%2Ff aq%2Fimg01.png&f=1

[celltech]

If you look at the picture I initially included the non Savage barrel has the sharp crests and the measured OD at the crest is 1.055". The Savage threads have the flat crests and measure at 1.050" actual. So I have to believe Xcal cut their threads based on that 1.055 for whatever reason, and Savage started at 1.0625" and then milled off a bit of the crest later.

I simply can't believe they have been doing this all along and nobody noticed till now....this has been a very interesting adventure for sure. Thanks to everyone for the knowledge, I have learned more about threads that I could imagine.

[RustyShackle]

Guess I could always pull the bbls and start measuring the diameter. I don’t have any good way to measure thread pitch and diameter at the thread datum line. Maybe we’re all flying by the seat of our britches.

like celltech I can’t believe this has been happening all along.

[mnbogboy2]

Like mentioned before it would be impossible to make perfect fit in all cases. I have found decent fits with SSS, Shilen, McGowen, Shaw and Savage. Also have seen the same barrels not so good in another action. Some Savage fits are real good while some are loose as a goose. We have to remember that every Savage action is a little different from the next one also. If one uses a good lug & nut and the barrel ends up sitting pretty decent in the barrel channel and your groups don't "walk" with temp increase I say the fit is good enough. Better yet if you remove the barrel and re-install it with the same torque and headspace and it shoots the same POI then it is good to go. With only changing barrels 20 or 30 times a year this has been my experience.
In the OPs case his was done wrong and hopefully will be taken care of.
Randy

[JeepsAndGuns]

Celltech, please let us know what happens and what they end up doing. Reading what they told you, I am scared they are going to say the same thing to me, and if they do, I am not sure what I am going to do.
I paid way too much money and waited way to dang long to get it, to have a barrel made out of spec. My barrel is a bull, 308 win, 1-10, 5R, 5/8-24 threaded muzzle, cryo treatment and nitrated.

[celltech]

I just spoke with them and they have been cutting based on 1.058" OD. They are quite perplexed as he claims they have been following this for years and nobody has ever said a word, their barrels are used in competitions, they shoot great, etc. They are going to talk to some gunsmiths and try to figure out just what they should be doing. I asked just where did they get the 1.058 from and he had no idea.

I feel for ya jeep...even if they cut a new barrel it will take forever to get all the treatments done. Out of curiosity, why bother with all of that?

To be continued...

[Robinhood]

Celtech. Did your "smith" tell you the barrel threads were undersized? I would be interested in knowing the pitch diameter. I'm going to get back with you with some numbers.

[celltech]

I don't have a smith, just a set of Chinesium calipers. I returned my barrel simply on the basis of this thread and my own observations. As for X-cal, they are admitting to nothing as of yet, just that nothing has changed on their end, the barrels fit their GO/NO-GO gauges (that I assume they made), but they will research it further. The only guy I have interfaced with is "Pat" and he does not seem to be technical...just sales and customer service.

I would love for you to pull a barrel and see what it looks like...

[JeepsAndGuns]

I feel for ya jeep...even if they cut a new barrel it will take forever to get all the treatments done. Out of curiosity, why bother with all of that?

Well cryo treatment everywhere I read was always 50-50, some swore by it and some said it made no difference. I have never had one so I figured, why not. As for the nitride, well I have a douglass barrel on my other savage and after a couple thousand rounds, I have noticed (via a bore scope) a good bit of heat cracking and throat erosion in it. So I figured I would try a nitrited barrel and see how much longer it lasts. I am not replacing the douglass barrel, it is on a completely different rifle in a different caliber, and still shoots great. I am just building a new rifle in 308.

I got my barrel back from the gunsmith and sent it back to x-caliber. Tracking number shows it should get there monday.

[gbflyer]

I have one they threaded. Also a PAC Nor. I’ll pull them down and mic them. I’ve got a new set of PEE DEE wires on order so it’ll be a few days.

[gbflyer]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180710/1d45136c75aea2edb2e087c54334ad93.png

This is a thread pitch diameter chart. I believe Savage small shank is classified 1-1/16-20 2B internal. I measured my PAC Nor that’s sitting here tonight with my new three wire set. The thread pitch measures 1.0273 which is within tolerance for 2B internal 2A external which gives a normal fit.

I will break the X-Cal prefit out in the next day or two.

[JeepsAndGuns]

According to the tracking number, they got my barrel back yesterday. No word from them yet. Hopefully they are getting things figured out and fixed. I will update when they contact me.