Sooty Necks on cartridges

[Peter_Kirch]

OK guys my load is 42.5 grains of varget and 168gr SMK using commercial winchester NATO brass with BR-2 primers.
I bought the factory nato loads, shot them, and used the cases for reloading. Out of the box they looked annealed.
I am only neck sizing the brass. It is all shot out of the same rifle (24" 1-10 douglas from sharpshooter). All the pieces have only been reloaded once (total of two loads per case).
The factory loads didn't soot the necks but my reloads are. What am I missing? The loads group great but it still soots the neck. I have tried RL-15, IMR4350, and Varget and all of them soot.
I am clearly doings something wrong.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh114/pk31690/P9180003.jpg

[Uncle Jack]

Sooty necks usually indicate low pressure. 42.5 grains of Varget is a minimum load according to Hodgdon with 46 being max.
I looks to me like you do not have enough pressure to seal the case in the chamber.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

uj

[thirty06]

+1 on to light of a load

[SHL540KB308]

Pressure low, varget is good, somewhere in the 44.0gr range should work fine and decent velocity. No chrono info on speed supplied, guess to be in the 2590 to 2610 range with what you have. Factory ammo you shot was a lot "hotter". If you like the way it shoots now? No problem, leave it. Should work ok out to 500 yards.

Later, Brad

[Peter_Kirch]

Brad- I don't have a chrono available to me unfortunately...might have to be a christmas present.

Ill push the load up a couple grains and see what i get.

Thanks guys!

-Peter

[tomme boy]

Not a problem unless it is going past the neck. If it starts to show up on the shoulder or main case I would be worried, but not on the neck.

[Peter_Kirch]

Also I would like to pose a question. Anyone know of a mathematical way to calculate accuracy nodes? I know the ladder testing is a tried a true way but a mathematical way could potentially save more time.

[BrentWin]

Also I would like to pose a question. Anyone know of a mathematical way to calculate accuracy nodes? I know the ladder testing is a tried a true way but a mathematical way could potentially save more time.


If there was a way, Hammer would have done it. Wait!!! I bet he has and is holding out on us.

OK Hammer, publish the formula that you have been selfishly withholding for all of these years.

[Peter_Kirch]

my guess that it is possible but pretty tough to do.

you'd have to know the friction coefficient, burn rate (which i'm sure is variable), density, hardness, and stiffness of the barrel material, etc.... just too many variables for any of us to want to do it.

Except maybe Hammer :)

[BrentWin]

You have to remember that reloading for accurracy is 90% science and 10% mysticism.

Now you will have to excuse me while I sacrfice a goat before heading to the range to try out some new 25-06AI loads.

[Peter_Kirch]

hahaha :D :D don't forget the newt's eye and dragon blood. I hear that helps quite a bit with bullet stabilization

[BillPa]

hahaha :D :D don't forget the newt's eye and dragon blood. I hear that helps quite a bit with bullet stabilization


For myself I've had outstanding success running around the bench like a wounded moose muttering some unintelligible babble while waving a severed chicken head over the rifle. It removes the bad Karma, they pack up they're gear and leave in a hurry! ;D

[Uncle Jack]

No! No! No!.......25-06AI loads require 2 bunny rabbits and a 16 years old virgin if you can find one.

uj

[earl39]

No! No! No!.......25-06AI loads require 2 bunny rabbits and a 16 years old virgin if you can find one.

uj


well we know why uncle jack can't hit nothing now. no such critter as a 16 year old virgin. and the bunny rabbits are hard to come by around here also. we just use bat wings and lizard tails with powdered deer antler and mix it all up with a dash of bullnettle root boil it twice strain it thru limburger cheese cloth and drink it down..

[earl39]

All kidding aside it does look like the pressure is a little to low or the brass is work hardened and not expanding enough to get a good seal on the neck.

[dcloco]

Also I would like to pose a question. Anyone know of a mathematical way to calculate accuracy nodes? I know the ladder testing is a tried a true way but a mathematical way could potentially save more time.


In theory, yes.....but...every barrel is a manufactured item. Starts at the base metal and work your way up. Between the metallurgy and machining process of rifling, chambering, crowning, and threading.....you are way past six sigma. Could attempt to fix some outlying groups at each step, but good luck.

[Peter_Kirch]

ok guys heres my uppded loads at 44 grains. I've come up with two potential problems
A) I have the neck sizer die improperly set up and there is not enough tension on the bullets
B) The brass is too hard to expand. But seeing as these are 1 time reloads i don't know. Perhaps they are just hard brass to begin with...


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh114/pk31690/P9240134.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh114/pk31690/P9240136.jpg

[GaCop]

Are you using a bushing die? If regular sizing die, a little lube the case neck will make the expander ball slide through the neck easier.

[tomme boy]

There is nothing wrong with the cases other than the 4th from the left looks like its ready to have seperation. Take some steel wool and polish the cases if the cabon bothers you.

[Peter_Kirch]

There is nothing wrong with the cases other than the 4th from the left looks like its ready to have seperation. Take some steel wool and polish the cases if the cabon bothers you.


Thats not separation, it's just a scratch on the outside from the chamfering tool.

I was just worried I was doing something wrong that was why the necks were sooty. I don't care what the cases look like, I just don't want to damage my rifle.

If those look great then I'm happy.