Problem zeroing my scope

[MikeSt]

Hello Gentlemen,

I'm new here to the Forum and hope to get an answer to my problem I have. I recently bought a Savage Stealth in 6.5 Creedmoor Left hand. I also got a Sig Sauer Tango 4 6-24 X 50 scope.
My problem is the following. First I tried to zero my scope at 100 yard - no success (I couldnt even find where the POI is). I had troubles and eventually gave up for the day. Yesterday I went to the range again and encountered the following: At 50 yards (i wanted to start lower distance first) i was about 4 inch high and I had no more clicks to adjust downwards!!! (as a test, I moved some click up and the bullet actually moved further up, as expected).

I don't have too much experience bore sighting and zeroing scope (even though on my Tikka T3 Hunter with Nikon P308 scope worked out alright) and I'm wondering if I miss something here. please correct me if I'm wrong:
My scope (center line through tube) is about 2 inch higher than the center line of the barrel. So in an ideal world if i had the scope turrets in neutral position (0) and no bullet drop (i assume I pretty much could neglect bullet drop at 50 yards) my POI should be 2 inch below. Therefore i would (at 50 yards) bring my elevation 4 clicks (1/4 MOA per click) UP to compensate. I assume that 4 clicks up will bring the cross hair actually down, which will actually make me move the mussel up to compensate.

If this assumption is correct (where I think it is) I probably should rather have the opposite problem (being too low with POI), being too high doesn't really make sense to me??!!
Can somebody shed some light into my issue and tell me that I'm totally wrong or have a problem on hand - preferably with a solution?!

Do I need a 20 MOA rail? I think it makes the problem worse, wouldn't it?! I have normal scope rings, no cant option there.
I talked to a guy at the gun counter at a local Bass Pro shop and he explained that the 50 yards would be my problem?! Correct?!

Right now this messes with my head - really bad!!!

Best Regards,
Mike

[Cornbread]

The easiest way to tell would be to put the new sope on the Tikka if it will clear the barrel with the Tikka mounts. Try running the elevation turret up and down the erector may be stuck. You can also count the clicks and see how much adjustment you have. If you cant zero it on the Tikka the scope is jacked. I usually set the elevation in the middle and get it on paper at 25 yds. Adjust for zero st 25. Then move to 100. Remember it takes 4 times as many clicks at 25 yds. What ammo were you using?

[Mozella]

What makes you think your scope is aligned with your barrel? Truth be told, the most likely situation is that when you consider the base, rings, and any angular difference between the action and barrel, you would expect the scope and barrel to NOT be aligned simply because none of these parts can be expected to be perfect. But if you start from basics, zeroing your scope should be easy.

Make sure you have a matching set of correct rings of the same height as well as a base designed for your action. It's unlikely that you have a 20 MOA base mounted backwards, but not impossible. Check just to be sure. Once you confirm your parts aren't somehow totally wrong, you can expect to easily bore sight your rig at 50 yards.

Set the rifle on a good rest or some sand bags with a firm rear bag and adjust it so that you can see a target center through the bore when you remove the bolt and look down the bore. Then, being careful not to move anything, move your eye up and look through the scope. Note where the cross hairs are and adjust them so that they are also centered on the target. Double or triple check your settings by shifting your view from down the bore to through the scope and back again until you're satisfied that your barrel and scope are pointed at the same point.

If you can't do this for some reason, you have a defective scope or non-standard mounting hardware of some kind. But it is more likely that you can perform this simple bore sight routine successfully in a few minutes.

Then fire off a round at a target 50 yards away. In no case would you expect to miss a letter sized piece of paper using this technique unless you're testing in a hurricane. Adjust your scope to move the PIO closer to zero but it need not be exact. Then move onto an ordinary sized target at 100 yards. Fine tune your POI and you're good to go.

Unless something is horribly wrong with your scope or hardware, you should be zeroed in at 100 yards before you shoot more than 5 rounds.

[MikeSt]

I would absolutely agree with you and I'm stunned myself. I use the factory rail which came mounted on my savage stealth, I use a set of new rings, I bore sighted it with an laser (at home at about 20 yards, not perfect but don't have more space available). On the range I got closer to bullseye but just 4 to 5 inch high. I used hornady match grade rounds.
I know that all components not perfect, that why I referenced to an ideal world.
However, I'm at the end point of my down adjustment on elevation and still 4 inch higher than bulls eye??!!

Regards,Mike

[Zero333]

First thing that comes to mind is your scope's objective bell could be hitting the front of the picatinny rail. Don't ask why I think this :anonymous:

[RustyShackle]

Pictures?

Also if you have a straight edge take the base off and sit it across the receiver. See if everything is aligned. Also if you have a micrometer and can measure the front and rear of the scope base will let you know if the issues are there.

[Zero333]

Pictures would help. If you don't have third party picture posting site like "Postimage.org"... which is easy and free to set up...
You can email me the pics at..

zeroboostbuick@sympatico.ca

and I'll post them.

[MikeSt]

I don't have pictures yet but can take some. I probably should check the tolerances of the mounted rail. I did check the rings before mounting and they were ok.
Cant do it tonight though. I guess there is no way for me to verify the scope internal alignment, probably need to send it back to check.

Thanks for all the feedback!!!

[RustyShackle]

Before you send the scope back swap it onto another rifle if possible. I know it’s a PITA but it will help narrow down the cause of your woes.

[VAFISH]

That scope has a resettable zero stop for the elevation.

My guess is that you are bottoming out on the zero stop when you try to lower your POI. Read your manual for how to release or override the zero stop.

A 20 MOA base would raise your point of impact 20 MOA or about 20 inches at 100 yards or 10 inches at 50 yards.

[J.Baker]

I don't have too much experience bore sighting and zeroing scope (even though on my Tikka T3 Hunter with Nikon P308 scope worked out alright) and I'm wondering if I miss something here. please correct me if I'm wrong:
My scope (center line through tube) is about 2 inch higher than the center line of the barrel. So in an ideal world if i had the scope turrets in neutral position (0) and no bullet drop (i assume I pretty much could neglect bullet drop at 50 yards) my POI should be 2 inch below. Therefore i would (at 50 yards) bring my elevation 4 clicks (1/4 MOA per click) UP to compensate. I assume that 4 clicks up will bring the cross hair actually down, which will actually make me move the mussel up to compensate.



If your scope has 1/4" clickers that's the value at 100 yards. At 50 yards each click would be 1/8". So to move the POI 2" you would need to dial in 16 clicks at 50.

As already noted above, a 20 MOA rail would just make matters worse.

The zero stop may very well be the cause of your issues as VAFish pointed out.

[penna shooter]

Any Updates or pixs...Good luck

[bsekf]

New rifle and new scope and, probably, new mounts. Sounds as if you might have a 20MOA mount. I use Burris Signature rings with the eccentric inserts, set crosshairs in mid point(best optics when adjustments are at mid point) adjust inserts while bore sighting. Several good you-tube videos of using Burris inserts.

Savage is notorious for drilling scope base holes out of line, that messes with horizontal. Vertical is usually the wrong mounts/bases.

Check that the scope tube and bell are NOT touching anything! Are the rings both the same height? Flat back base on round action?

Bill

[Robinhood]

My scope (center line through tube) is about 2 inch higher than the center line of the barrel. So in an ideal world if i had the scope turrets in neutral position (0) and no bullet drop (i assume I pretty much could neglect bullet drop at 50 yards) my POI should be 2 inch below. Therefore i would (at 50 yards) bring my elevation 4 clicks (1/4 MOA per click) UP to compensate. I assume that 4 clicks up will bring the cross hair actually down, which will actually make me move the mussel up to compensate.


Most people cant find zero(center) on there scope if they had to. They might be able to go left go right and count back to middle. Repeat up and down etc... Thats not "zero"

Follow what Mr Furious told you but start at 25 yds. (16 clicks per inch)Get it 1.5 inch low at 25 yards and walk it out 50 then 100 and on. If it continues moving towards point of aim as you walk it out to 50 then 100 you are in good shape. If not you have a problem.

(200 it wll be 1 lick per half inch, 300 is 1 click for 3/4 inch..... )

[Zero333]

I agree about the zero stop.

Even if it's a 100% new from factory scope, there is always a small chance the zero stop was set incorrectly at the factory.

[SageRat Shooter]

I agree that it's most likely the zero stop feature... The scope is supposed to have 65 MOA for both elevation and windage on the FFP model.

[VAFISH]

Instructions for setting the zero stop start on page 15

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Tango4-English.pdf

If you just slapped it in the scope rings and tried to turn the elevation dial down without removing the turret and using the hex keys to set your elevation I'll almost guarantee that is your problem.

[MikeSt]

There is a good chance that is the problem, I have to admit! Even though I look at the zero stop at my first go around, I completely ignored it on my second attempt to zero it.
Unfortunately there the other necessary things in life which prevent me from going to the ranch right now.
Thanks for all the feedback ! I will post when I checked it out.

[MikeSt]

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP94S1zP_mRlYx9hRk_a4tuuYhUxxOphnobD-Bg
Ok, i wanted to add picture but i guess it doesn't work right. I inserted a UrL to google.photo - does this work? how about pdf's? I plotted trajectory curves in Excel and printed the graph into an pdf. Can I post a pdf here easily?


Zero stop was the deal I guess - thanks for the advise - still there is some question marks above my head!!!

I shot two different factory rounds at 100yrds, Hornady Match 147gn and Hornady (i think custom) 120gn. Both have ELD_Match bullet. With the 147gn I was relative close to bullseye (about 1" high and right; though I don't like the group), when i shot the 120gn I was repeatably almost 6" high, I plotted the trajectory curve for both and it seems to me that there should be no difference at about 100yrds between the bullets. Somebody has an explanation for that?!
If i could post pictures, I can show.....

On another subject - I received my reloading dies for 6.5 Creedmoor and also bought 120gn bullets and 147gn bullets are on their way. When you guys pick the bullet for your gun, how do you do this? Are you going to shoot a lot of different factory ammo to figure out the bullet type and size and then develop a load to optimize it? Do you pre-select a bullet from your preference, usage (obviously will be a reason, hunting or target), what about the weight?
I sort of did this with my Tikka T3 Hunter in 308 and got good results but I'm not sure if I could get better results with a different selection and sorting process

Regards,
Mike

[Robinhood]

it seems to me that there should be no difference at about 100yrds between the bullets.

Au contraire.


When you guys pick the bullet for your gun, how do you do this? Are you going to shoot a lot of different factory ammo to figure out the bullet type and size and then develop a load to optimize it? Do you pre-select a bullet from your preference, usage (obviously will be a reason, hunting or target), what about the weight?

A lot of opinions on this but basically if your hunting you want the most energy possible. The heavier bullet flies slower but has a better BC and hits harder at long range. The lighter one can fly faster and flatter to a point, increased speed is energy on game. The 6.5's are so good with BC it comes down to range and purpose. The 140 class is really the best of both worlds. With 2850 easily achievable and long or extended long range accuracy being excellent why go any higher than the 143. But that's just me.